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  1. #11
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yes, I definitely agree that IxFJs are the most disorganized J types, probably with INFJ being a little more disorganized than ISFJ. It makes sense - you guys are dominant Perceivers, even though you're extraverted Judgers, and you use warm relational Fe in preference to crisply logical Te. And N adds a touch more distance from practical affairs.
    Holy woah, yeah, the J label means nothing. I have two ISFJ friends who are sloppy as shit.

  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    Holy woah, yeah, the J label means nothing. I have two ISFJ friends who are sloppy as shit.
    Lol, yeah. My ISFJ is really careful about his personal appearance and hygiene, keeps his car immaculate, is always early, and definitely prefers closure, but he's much more loose about keeping his things organized, like I am. We make piles of clothes and papers and leave the bed a cozy mess. He doesn't really do planning, either, which I always found interesting for a J. He's still definitely order over chaos, but it manifests in specific ways.

  3. #13
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    Order and being able to command stuff is where it's at. Organization on the other hand is just putting things into stupid little categories and restricting the flow of their movement. I thereby decree that being a master of order is vastly superior to that of being a slave to organization!

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    My disorganization has caused me grief all my life. I've been attempting to overcome it since about kindergarden. It's just not going to happen. It seems to be getting worse as I get older. I manage, but not as easily as I can envision managing if I could just get my shit together.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I find ongoing logs like food journal, diaries or behaviour records at school hard to consistently maintain, yet am bothered because I want them to be perfect. I put off things that involve decision-making with no clear answer, or tasks that I'm unsure of how to approach, yet care about.

    I dislike disorder though and cannot live well in chaotic surroundings or with people who create too much emotional chaos for me to deal with.
    I can totally relate to the above, especially when you say you dislike disorder but cant live in a chaotic invoroment. I find that it's such a double edge sword being an INFJ. It's like i freak out when things get to cluttered, but dislike having to keep track of the details in my life.

    Although I do keep track of certain details, It's like a part of me gets tiered of feeling like I am confined. It makes me feel obligated and trapped in a sense. This is mostly specific when it comes to commitments. I guess i place more importance on details pertaining to things like keeping a journal or keeping track of other stuff in my own little world. I can't stand doing anything which falls into some kind of system. Although, I do notice that the majority of INFJs dislike routine, I actually don't mind it in specific cases as it allows me the opertunity to sharpen my skills in specific areas.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    Order and being able to command stuff is where it's at. Organization on the other hand is just putting things into stupid little categories and restricting the flow of their movement. I thereby decree that being a master of order is vastly superior to that of being a slave to organization!
    Well put, gotta love INTPs. My experience with the few I have met is that you guys definitely don't like being dictated or restricted. I can appreciate this being a 4 as INTPs definitely stick out as individuals.

  7. #17
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    the (two) INFJs that i've known are constantly between needing an organized environment and the lack of will to act upon the need in the now, so there's a constant backlash cycle of accumulation -> stress -> cleaning -> forgetting -> accumulation.

    in comparison, the ISFJs i've known had a much a much easier time keeping up with habits, cleaning after themselves ritualistically, and one ESFJ in the army was particularly astonished at the very ability others (me and an ESTP most of all) have to not do so.

    the INTJs i've known tend to develop systems dictating the right/wrong places to put things, which helps them keep things more persistent. as the story goes, before he was tamed into chaos by my ENFP mother, my father marked dots and lines around his apartment carefully calculating the best location of everything from the kitchen chairs to the mugs (and no, he was not OCD).

    still, i am not sure if INFJs are more disorganized than ENFJs - the only ENFJ i was close to was during high school and she had a very disorganized looking organization formula (the shal just HAD to be thrown the right way on the mirror so it wrinkles the right organic way), which might have being a reflection of what she found to be socially appropriate organization at our age group and her style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    Holy woah, yeah, the J label means nothing. I have two ISFJ friends who are sloppy as shit.
    i wouldn't say that - it particularly means a mind which seeks maximum coherency over maximum stimulation (in my interpretation).

    however being stressed by disorganization doesn't make you a good organizer anymore that having a bad immunity system gives you a medical degree. people in stories rise to the occasion, but in RL they mostly just eat up the consequences.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    sample size: 1

    My INFJ isn't disorganized as much as "messy." She has some kind of convoluted, weird, not-easily-identifiable system in place, in that, she knows where all the important shit is, but it's simply surrounded by, under, next to, three-doors-down-under-the-rock-near-the-old-oak-tree-- utter clutter chaos.

    In comparison with other Js I've known in my life, she (along with me, but I don't fit that well into ISFJ-land anyway) certainly takes the disorganized [but still delicious] cake. My INTP brother (along with other Ps I've known) OTOH, would forget where he put the cake in the first place. End up finding it in the already-run-off dryer with his newly-stained clothes. Slip on his once-white-but-now-pink-frosting-dyed shirt and walk away. Occasionally licking his shoulder and wondering why it tastes so good.

    Yeah.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    An INTP to help keep things organized.
    We're the most organised type of all! In our heads anyway...

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i wouldn't say that - it particularly means a mind which seeks maximum coherency over maximum stimulation (in my interpretation).

    however being stressed by disorganization doesn't make you a good organizer anymore that having a bad immunity system gives you a medical degree. people in stories rise to the occasion, but in RL they mostly just eat up the consequences.
    In my defense, I was speaking to the stereotype that says Js must be organized in every aspect of their life, including their desks.

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