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  1. #1
    Society
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    Default could this be Fi?

    i doubt i could be an ENFP, i have considered it but it seems i am intensely Ti oriented... still, i do wonder, and there are the ocasional things that i view - feel? - are unethical in a way that makes me squirmish.

    i am not sure how to word it, in hebrew its don't mix the lamb in his mother's milk, i heard the french have something along the lines of don't screw the milkman's wife and take the milk. less metaphorically, things that bother me along that line is the hassidic community in israel both not acknowledging the country's right for existence and yet exploiting it financially through targeted benefits in the same time, or a single parent using their SOs to take care of their children while they go out and cheat, or employers who depand on their employees to shift scheduals for emergency situations but won't give leeway for employee's emergencies, people who use their own ideals to accuse others but won't act according to them themselves, and don't get me started on the "too big to fail" economic mechanism...

    at some point its stratagy, but instead of having the beauty of efficency and emergent systems, instead of seen someone acomplishing their goals, which is what i usually notice even in the most unfair situations... it just looks... ugly, grotesque almost.

  2. #2
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Could just as easily be Fe and you're less conscious of the Fe reasoning behind it. It is an approximation of Feeling based decisions anyway.

    Fi is in a way effectively, "conclusion first, reasoning second". This doesn't mean it's an irrational conclusion - often it's just that Fi users can perceive the conclusions faster than we can consciously outline the rationale. I've read somewhere that this is (psychologically) what all people do when making decisions - maybe it's just that Fi is more open about it. Fe might do it by making an instantaneous measure against common standards. I mean after all, the things you're pointing out are things most people would think were wrong or indecent. I suppose with Fi, the true test is when something seems wrong but yet is commonly accepted.

    Could you explain your last paragraph again? I think some of it is being lost in translation.




    BTW the equivalent to the Hebrew phrase in English is technically, "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk" (from the King James Bible). Although you may hear more commonly, "thou shalt not boil a goat in it's mother's milk". People don't use this as a proverb at all, though. There are far better English versions of this sort of idiom, not that I can think of one right now. The closest equivalent I can think of is, "you can't have your cake and eat it too", but that doesn't quite fit as it doesn't imply the same perverse aspect. Hmm...
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    @Southern Kross, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" perhaps. As for the OP, it sounds like weak F and I'm inclined to say Fi but it could go either way. I just don't see the external measurement standard in your reasoning but I'd need to see more. In particular though, I'm inclined to say it sounds like inferior feeling. Based on the posts I've seen I do think you're a cognitive extrovert. Did you ever consider ExTJ being a likely type for yourself?

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  4. #4
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" perhaps.
    Yeah, almost. It's still not getting the perverse, "intrinsicly wrong" element...

    Sorry, Mane. I'll stop derailing. It's just bugging me that I can't think of it.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #5
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Could just as easily be Fe and you're less conscious of the Fe reasoning behind it. It is an approximation of Feeling based decisions anyway.
    Agreed. Fe, of course, contains ethical components. A sense of right and wrong and standards.

    I suppose with Fi, the true test is when something seems wrong but yet is commonly accepted.
    Agreed. I think every Fi person can relate to having moments where we feel something is ethically wrong, but we look around and wonder why no one else seems to be concerned. Every one else is either not seeing it or choosing to remain silent. Have you experienced moments like that? And if you have, what did you do?

    @Mane: My personal opinion: You don't vibe ENFP to me (nor do you vibe ExTJ as above.) ENTP comfortably fits you from my perspective based on witnessing your interactions here.

    Plus, as further evidence if you need it, you seem to be able to enflame INFJ's as only a naughty ENTP can ...
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  6. #6
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Sounds more like Ti aesthetics + Fe ethics. The deliberate and cruel perversion of the system is what seems to get to you, in addition to the people-hurt that inevitably results.

    An INTP I know very well is very ethical and seems to be particularly frustrated with similar situations. At one point his employer asked him to illegally backdate some documentation, and he was PISSED, not just because of the people it could potentially harm, but because he works in a non-profit sector and it was such a fucked-up exploitation of a system that was designed for helping and healing, not for any personal benefit on anyone's part. I can remember few times when he was as angry as he was then. We live in a "right-to-work" state (as in you can get fired for any reason at any time, and as an employee you have no protection), and he risked his long-term job to flat-out tell them no and that he ought to report them for asking. He's still working there and they've never approached him with anything like that since.

  7. #7
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    @PeaceBaby -

    Thats what I am questioning: do moments where I feel something is wrong for menifesting the vaguely defines princible in the OP stem from Fi..
    The thing is its not inherintly utilterian, it can be at times but it doesnt have to be in order to feel wrong.
    most of my ethics are just being protective tlowards those I care about, and the rest, when I factor them in at all, have to do with negative consequances, and can be easily explained by my suseptibility to compassion and sense of responsibility, which as far as I can tell exists for both Fi and Fe in different flavors. Others are cultural, like the jewish conception of being a mench. I also used to be a libertarian which affected some of my ethical dillemas.

    But not this one. It will feel wrong regardless if the consequances get worst or not. Clearly the lamb cooked in his mothers milk is dead eitherway and his mothers loss doesnt change by how you cook it or what you do with her milk, but somehow it still fels wrong, even if doing either of those alone wouldng affect me a bit.

    I can think of very rare ocasions where I consciously acted on it, maybe 5 or 6 my entire life. 3 of those were me giving up on oppertunities I was going to act upon when I realized this would be the result, 2 involved distracting my friends with a different idea when the current game plan would have likely lead to this, and once I voted according to it, the first elections I was old enough to vote in.

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