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  1. #21
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Bologna:

    I'm also a fan of

    "Here's my point: [the point]

    Here's why I think that: [long flippin' explanatory text here]"

    Best of both worlds for me.
    Yep, me, too.

    Coriolis:

    One thing I hate is when I can tell what point someone is working up towards, but in an effort to be polite, I refrain from short-circuiting their account and give them the benefit of the doubt that perhaps I really don't know what they plan to say. Then, they proceed to say in the most longwinded manner possible exactly what I suspected they would. Makes me want to scream.
    I do the same thing!

    It's not the number of words, it's the word to content ratio. Use many words if you need them to develop your point; if paring them down would sacrifice meaning, don't. But don't say in 100 words what requires only 15.
    Yes, I completely agree.

    Te is also a big part of the translation mechanism from Ni to the outside world. I like to be concise, but also like to make sure I will be understood. I suspect my explanations are sometimes overkill as a result.
    Oh, wow, thank you for sharing this. It gives me a good insight. I have often been accused of "over-explaining" or "overkill," and maybe this explains why.

    PeaceBaby,

    Thank you for this:
    If all you want is the short answer, it's Je. Simplification of information in order to render judgment applicable to a "real world" scenario.
    Yeah, but I've not heard Ji and Je before today, but MBTI is a growing subject for me. Learn something new everyday, so I will keep this in mind.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #22
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I can understand that. It's not to fuck with you, it's just the way we amalgamate information. I wish I had the gift of going into things decided, but almost everything is a journey of discovery. Every post for me is like that. I write it, but I restructure as I'm writing, as I discover better lines of thought to run on. I edit for organization after the thoughts pour out, not before or during, as I really struggle trying to organize them in my head - feels like a giant bowl of alphabet soup. Unfortunately, it's impossible to go back and edit speech! That said, ENTPs are notoriously trolly debaters.
    FWIW, it bothers me a lot less with ENFPs than ENTPs. I really only run into the problem with ENFPs when I'm trying to offer assistance, and trying to single out a root cause to act on. After a few minutes of talking, eventually the ENFP will just throw up their hands and tell me, "IT'S ALL THE THINGS, OK??? ALL THE THINGS!!!!" I'm probably as frustrating to them as they are to me, tbh.

    ENTPs, otoh, it's like they derive a sense of superiority from the inability to stay on topic. With rare exception, they're usually not worth the time to communicate with as it usually just devolves into conflict.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  3. #23
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Rasofy, so, um what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yep, everything said needs a point! haha...imagine going through a drive-thru window and ordering a burger. When you get the bag, you just keep digging through that thin paper that they wrap the food in, but all you find is paper, paper and more paper; so you keep digging and digging to find your burger, until you finally look up and say, "Hey, where's the beef?" [laughing as I type this] Well, sometimes in a conversation, I'm going, "Hey, where's beef?" I admit to being that way. I'm just trying to figure out what function is responsible for me being that way and which function is responsible for conversations wrapped in lots and lots of paper.
    That's a pretty nice analogy to keep in mind while wondering whether I'm talking too much, haha. My answer to Coriolis is basically my answer to you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If It doesn't, why say it?
    There's a Ji compulsion to deconstruct things/events/ideas to bits going on, I think. It's basically our way of sharing knowledge. We aren't that focused on getting to the point, as sometimes the 'how' and the 'what if' parts are much more interesting.

    Results range from fascinating to annoying, though it might be possible to channel the fixation to something worth listening by asking the right questions.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    There's a Ji compulsion to deconstruct things/events/ideas to bits going on, I think. It's basically our way of sharing knowledge. We aren't that focused on getting to the point, as sometimes the 'how' and the 'what if' parts are much more interesting.

    Results range from fascinating to annoying, though it might be possible to channel the fixation to something worth listening by asking the right questions.
    Why, thank you, Rasofy. That really does explain things quite nicely and you did a fine job of getting your point across, too

    Also, I love the hatchet!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    There's a Ji compulsion to deconstruct things/events/ideas to bits going on, I think. It's basically our way of sharing knowledge. We aren't that focused on getting to the point, as sometimes the 'how' and the 'what if' parts are much more interesting.

    Results range from fascinating to annoying, though it might be possible to channel the fixation to something worth listening by asking the right questions.
    I'm familiar with this scenario, and can usually ask the right questions, as long as the other person is willing to cooperate with the interrogation. Sometimes, though, I just end up in those loops of knowing what they are going to say before they say it, and getting impatient when they don't cut to the chase.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I don't tend to tell stories for their own sake. There is always a point - often many. I find ISFPs use real stories to illustrate Fi points & INFPs use metaphor more, but each can do either at times.

    When I was younger, my mom told me I needed to connect my ideas to the main point(s) in my school papers, because I supposedly jumped from one to the next, although I did not see it that way. I thought the connections were "obvious" and connecting them was tedious & dull. It seemed to me someone had to be pretty stupid to not get it...

    I've also read that INFPs often may use terminology or reference things others are not familiar with, assuming that they are, which leaves people confused. I'm not sure why we may do this, but I know I do this, especially with areas I have some knowledge in (using specialized terminology assuming everyone knows them). I think it's some tert Si thing & giving the benefit of the doubt. INTPs do it too but are more obsessed with precision & tend to end up spelling out as if you're stupid (not giving benefit of the doubt). I think INFPs assume you're smart enough to make connections, so they don't spell the point out. They give you the pieces, assuming you're getting the big picture. This probably has to do with the "informative" communication style, where you're simply given information with an implied direction for action or conclusion.

    Being an NP, there's a lot of crossing of contexts. You create a relationship between two things to explain an abstract idea. A story is often, again, illustrative. And we're not necessarily going off topic... we just didn't spell out the connection for you. If given enough time, I think it wraps back around & you have quite ingenious point on your hands .

    Anyhow, once I was informed that people weren't following me, I began to laboriously connect the dots, add more details, & probably over-explain. Now you have a wall-o-texter.... Be careful what you ask for.

    ^ That has a point in it; several actually.

    Oh wait - more ideas. Also, as Ji-dom, judging, or organizing reality into things like "points" is experienced & viewed as an individual, internal thing. Unlike Je, which is looking externally for that organization, I guess. To me this looks like "stupid" again. And when Je types make points, I admit I tend to ignore them. I consider the info & decide for myself what it means.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #27
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    If I'm having trouble explaining something sometimes, I actually like J people who say like 1 sentence which articulates or summarizes it perfectly. It's really pleasing.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It's not the number of words, it's the word to content ratio. Use many words if you need them to develop your point; if paring them down would sacrifice meaning, don't. But don't say in 100 words what requires only 15.
    I wish you were every college prof I ever had.
    Dirt Farmer

  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStarchDefenders View Post
    I wish you were every college prof I ever had.
    Why? Did they penalize you for writing too much -- or too little?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Why? Did they penalize you for writing too much -- or too little?
    Too little. Though one prof gave me As even though I never met the length requirements.
    Dirt Farmer

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