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  1. #81
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't know... based on your most recent post, I think you've already been broken up with. This sounds like someone who doesn't want to date you but also doesn't want to hurt your feelings and is agreeing to do "friend" things. Telling you she's not sure you're on the same page sounds like it might be as assertive as she's able to be right now. Maybe she's never broken up with anybody before.

    I hope I'm wrong because you seem like a sweet guy and she seems like a sweet girl (if flighty) but that's how it reads to me.
    Could be. He said they're going to meet so at least they'll gain experience. And that's worthwhile, I think. Don't you?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  2. #82
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Sure, I would definitely meet with her, to get clarity if nothing else. I'd put her on the spot, though. Are we a couple or are we "just friends"?

  3. #83
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Sure, I would definitely meet with her, to get clarity if nothing else. I'd put her on the spot, though. Are we a couple or are we "just friends"?
    Yeah, I think that sounds right.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  4. #84
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanmartin12345 View Post
    We are meeting up tomorrow after work to go hiking. She wasn't sure if she wanted to meet with me because she said that our last interaction (where we bumped into each other) caught her by surprise & that she's not sure if we are on the same page. By caught by surprise, it was probably that I tried to kiss her and she didn't really want to do it back. I told her that we can just hang out & enjoy each others' company. She agreed to meet up after I told her that.

    I was planning on meeting up with her and trying to show her aspects of myself that I never showed her when we were together. I was going to get her a gift that she will like, flowers (she's told me she likes these a lot - not just on Valentine's Day when I got them for her - but any random day), and write a letter/poem expressing all the things she did that I appreciated & characteristics I like about her. Because when we were breaking up she told me she thought my reasons for liking her were reasons I could like anybody & that she feels self conscious around me & that she's not sure if her simple dreams can match up to my amazing ones.

    I'm just trying to express to her through gifts & words of affirmation (things I never did much) how much I care for her and hoping that those will trigger her to feel that maybe she can actually fall for me again. Like she doesn't feel the love/connection that she wants to and I'm hoping to show her through these that perhaps she can because I never expressed myself in this way to her before.

    Thoughts? Thank you.
    What I'm gathering from this is that she was a little uncomfortable during your last interaction because you were still trying to show the interest like she didn't break up with you (kissing her). She agreed to meet with you again, though, because you said it would be just hanging out (which is what caused her to agree). Your plan, then, is to smother her with affection and give her flowers and poetry. I must have lost you somewhere. Wouldn't that make her even more uncomfortable, particularly because it's hard to avoid someone when you're out hiking with them? Who knows, though. IMO, if you're trying to win someone back, then you might as well quit because you're never going to be on an equal footing.

    On to the more general nature of the thread not related to the OP's particular circumstances:

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    There's a lot of good advice in this thread from the women.

    It's an interesting thing to read about because that fickleness of ENFPs is the primary reason I went with other types back in the day. A number of years after finishing college this ENFP admitted to having a huge crush on me for a couple of years. She was beautiful and we got along great but I told her I thought she was "too fickle" and that's what drove my decision. My sense was there was too much risk to being hurt. I'd rather be with someone I could depend on. Looking at type, that of course is coming from an Enneagram 6, which tends to focus on things that can go wrong and according to the statistics, 6s prefer 9s and 2s. ENFPs are seldom 9s or 2s. So an INTJ Enneagram 6 would be less likely to end up with an ENFP than other types of INTJs which is irrelevant to this thread but something I just thought of.

    Honestly, I don't think the ENFPs are intentionally doing anything wrong. They have a sense that certain things bother them or it's not right but aren't sure what to do. They have a hard time making final decisions in general and also with ending relationships (or at least finishing them for good) unless you do something serious to violate their trust in which case you're toast. Even after ending things, they still want to hang out and be friends and can sometimes appear to give mixed signals.

    Personally, I wouldn't put up with it. I'd move on and not hang out with her anymore.
    As usual, I pretty much completely agree with highlander (except the enneagram, as I am probably a 9w8).

    I think a lot of the arguments between ENFPs and other types tend to be around the idea that they aren't doing anything intentionally wrong and other people think they are. I think that it's generally true that ENFP's empathy makes it difficult for them to intentionally wrong other people and be completely selfish. However, I think that whether or not they think they are doing the right thing, their actions (and whatever results from them) are often not in line with their intentions. The other people get upset and think the ENFP is being purposefully hurtful or making stupid decisions and the ENFP uses the defense that their intentions were good as their magic wand to justify any action. I'm not trying to speak for all ENFPs here, but I've seen a healthy number of ENFPs justify things like cheating in such a way that they would claim (and believe it) that they would never and have never cheated, despite the fact that the majority of mainstream society would disagree with their criteria. When their trying to match what they want with their feelings and reality, you can see all kind of interesting technicalities come out.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #85
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    What I'm gathering from this is that she was a little uncomfortable during your last interaction because you were still trying to show the interest like she didn't break up with you (kissing her). She agreed to meet with you again, though, because you said it would be just hanging out (which is what caused her to agree). Your plan, then, is to smother her with affection and give her flowers and poetry. I must have lost you somewhere. Wouldn't that make her even more uncomfortable, particularly because it's hard to avoid someone when you're out hiking with them? Who knows, though. IMO, if you're trying to win someone back, then you might as well quit because you're never going to be on an equal footing.
    Exactly.

  6. #86
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    There is only 1 piece of advice you should know.

    Be the best person you can be. Those who like you for who you are will come to you. Those who are worth it will stick around and realize that if you're worth waiting for, you're worth waiting for. Just make sure to position yourself in a situation where you can put your best foot forward in all situations, this way people actually know what you have to offer.

    This applies even though I am a socionics aggressor (person who does all the chasing).

  7. #87
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    I don't want to make her uncomfortable. I've accepted that in her mind she has told me it's over despite the vagueness I got from the last time we actually met up. My goal for this is to show her all the things I did appreciate about her because I don't feel like she ever got a chance to hear that. I'm not going to try to kiss her or anything. Perhaps also ease some of her insecurities in general.

  8. #88
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanmartin12345 View Post
    I don't want to make her uncomfortable. I've accepted that in her mind she has told me it's over despite the vagueness I got from the last time we actually met up. My goal for this is to show her all the things I did appreciate about her because I don't feel like she ever got a chance to hear that. I'm not going to try to kiss her or anything. Perhaps also ease some of her insecurities in general.
    Sure its good to try it out but just know when to quit if it's not working.

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