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[INFP] INFP's, inadequate compared to ENFP's?

Scott N Denver

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INFP's, do you ever feel inadequate compared to ENFP's?

non-INFP's, do you often see INFP's as inadequate compared to ENFP's?

Personally, I don't feel like ENFP's are quite as warm and gooey as we are, but they do a tremendously more effective job of communicating their warm gooeyness to the rest of the world than we do. I think much of the rest of the world is not "interested in depth" enough to find out how warm and gooey we are. So yes, I sometimes feel inadequate when compared to ENFP's.
 

Tyrinth

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Inadequate? Uh... I can't say that I've ever felt that.

I don't really see any point in comparing my type to other types in that way. We all have our strengths, and ENFPs may be better communicators, but I have no interest in communicating my non-existent warm-and-gooey-ness to many people anyway.
 

hazelsees

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No!
INFPs are wonderful in a completely different way than ENFPs.
I'm drawn to ENFPs because of their energy...because of chemistry...and I don't know why. But I'm always suspicious of them. It's hard to know what they really think of me. When I've needed to ask advice, etc. from my ENFP friend, I"ve had to preface it with "just give it to me straight...don't gush." My ENFP boss, during my performance review, I always have to ask him not to gush. I love him though.
The two INFPs that I know (have been through testing and stuff) are flippin' brilliant. Whoever made the "are INFPs intelligent?" threads are completely off. The ones that I know are so smart and I LOVE talking to them. We have so much in common but are different too. They soothe me. Not inadequate at all--different in an equally wonderful way as ENFPs.
 

OrangeAppled

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I never related to ENFPs until I encountered them online & saw more of their internal thought process. The exception being a few famous ENFP e4s, but that's not the same as "in person" either. I generally find them very different as far as external demeanor goes. And for the record, I'm not really warm & gooey.... I care in a more fiery way. It has to be kept contained a bit or it'd burn everything down.

In person, I've had a few become jealous over me (I know cuz they told me). I'm taken more seriously than they are & often treated as more intelligent (these specific individuals I mean). They are more charming & do better socially over all, but people sometimes treat them as if they're silly (It's funny how online it's almost opposite; INFPs can be dismissed as fluffy or emo or whatever). I've noticed a bit of "introvert envy" among ENFx in general. Sometimes they think they are INFx, because I think they have insecurity over being "deep". The thing is, I never find these people shallow or silly (in a bad way; good silly sometimes). I DO resent when their resentment over my opinions supposedly carrying more weight/influence leads to them trying to paint me negatively to others.

I do admire their strengths, many of which I lack, but I don't think I'd want to make a trade.
 

highlander

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The two seem so different to me that it is almost impossible to compare. The one exception might be an INFP enneagram 7 that did seem a lot like an ENFP.
 

pinkgraffiti

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we should feel inadequate, cause we neither have the analytical insight of ENTPs nor the emotional insight of INFPs... and for warm and gooey without consequence you have the ESFPs. I feel like ENFPs are a bit of everything but not perfect at anything.
 

Zarathustra

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The one exception might be an INFP enneagram 7 that did seem a lot like an ENFP.

Honestly, I don't think many, if any, INFP 7s exist.

The two are pretty damn antithetical to one another.

and for warm and gooey without consequence you have the ESFPs.

I don't think ESFPs are really all that warm and gooey -- more like bubbly, air-headed, and outgoing.

ESFPs can often be cold and sharp (and shallow) in a way that ENFPs generally aren't.

That's why ENFPs are often so much more enjoyable than ESFPs.
 

Abbey

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I've always felt a bit inadequate compared to my ENFP sister because she's better than me in a lot of things, but that's probably just sibling rivalry.
In comparison to other ENFP's I know, no because they're all boys and it's hard to compare yourself to the opposite sex (at least for me). They are very kind-hearted and we have the same sense of humour.
 

mintleaf

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No!
INFPs are wonderful in a completely different way than ENFPs.
I'm drawn to ENFPs because of their energy...because of chemistry...and I don't know why. But I'm always suspicious of them. It's hard to know what they really think of me. When I've needed to ask advice, etc. from my ENFP friend, I"ve had to preface it with "just give it to me straight...don't gush." My ENFP boss, during my performance review, I always have to ask him not to gush. I love him though.
The two INFPs that I know (have been through testing and stuff) are flippin' brilliant. Whoever made the "are INFPs intelligent?" threads are completely off. The ones that I know are so smart and I LOVE talking to them. We have so much in common but are different too. They soothe me. Not inadequate at all--different in an equally wonderful way as ENFPs.

I wish I felt as enthusiastic about people as you seem to! :heart: I'm really disenchanted with everyone right now, even my fellow NFPs

I only know one ENFP, my English teacher, and in some ways I feel more grounded and capable than him. But overall I admire him, and really like most famous ENFPs and the ones I've come across on this forum.

does anyone get the impression that, in real life, INFPs are taken more seriously than ENFPs?
 

skylights

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Breadth or depth is the essence of the question. Neither is inadequate when understood in the light of the purpose for which they exist.

To be honest, it can be frustrating to hear things like this. INFPs have it better off in a lot of ways that I envy.
 

Scott N Denver

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for the record I am a male INFP, and largely thinking about female ENFP's.

about INFP's being taken more seriously:
I had to think about this some, but I have seen situations where ENFP's are not taken as seriously during conversations. However, they are usually enjoyed and popular and get people/class to laugh when they talk.
When I think of work/school conversations from when I was in science/engineering/technology, I definitely didnt feel like my "INFP contribution" was desired very often, if ever. GUess thats working in NT-land for you. However, and maybe this is just the INTJ-ENFP fetishist thing, I saw many times where ENFP's got lots of reception and attention from said NT/INTJ's and the ENFP's would be all over the place with their Ne brainstorming and the INTJ's would constantly be like "good idea" "good question" "your so interesting" etc.

I'm currently in school for medical training, and we I've seen probably almost every MBTI type among my peers by now. So we have pretty good variety, including a near 50-50 split between men and women. I feel like I see a lot of strongly-E woman [ESFP, ENFP, ESFJ] and then a ENFP comes in and the strongly-E women are all like "we love your energy" "your so enthusiastic" "we love you" "your so great" etc. Then I look at us various I's, especially male I's, and well sometimes it almost seems like we get passed over *just* for not being loud/social/demonstrative enough. "Its not what you know its how loudly you do it" could perhaps be the catchphrase there. Now, to be fair, I like the ENFP(s) in qstn, and I think they are good people and good workers.

I think INFP's are frequently awesome once you get to know them. But for pure "social pow" and "hey, this person seems interesting" I think ENFP's totally win that category. Quoting form skylights in the "ENFP's in friendship and love" thread: "I definitely tend to shy away from spending 1-on-1 time with people... who are very, very quiet, so that I always have to initiate." Now, personally I've been called a "chatty kathy" more times than I can count, but realistically I think in many many cases INFP's are seen as, fairly or not, those very very quiet people skylights was talking about. It seems like ENFP's generally don't have that "problem."

I personally feel like well developed ENFP's and INFP's, and by well developed I mean here strong Fi and strong Ne, can definitely "play in each others worlds." With that said, usually INFP's seem at their best when they bring their warm safe nurturing accepting presence to others. INFP's can definitely think outside of the box and innovate, but I'm not sure how often we gene rally do that. I'm not sure if ENFP's are more known for being either 1) super creative all-over-the-place idea brainstormers or 2) also having a warm accepting easygoing and possibly nurturing social presence. I've seen plenty of ENFP's do both of those things pretty well, and jump between them pretty easily.

When I think of the ENFP's that I know, I think INFP's are generally more effective at 1) being grounded [if non-engaging], 2) being calm, 3) bringing a calming presence to others, 4) focusing, 5) staying focused, and 6) accomplishing work via staying focused. maybe I should add 7) having a life that doesnt resemble a hurricane or tornado

There is that saying "its better to be lucky than good." In a world where it is often far much more about who you know than what you know, I think an alternate saying should "its better to be social/popular/or well-known than it is to be good/skilled/SME."

If absolutely nothing else, strong-E's seem to really prefer ENFP's over INFP's ime.

About ENFP's being taken more seriously when they talk: personally I feel like ENFP's just lightly say something or flirt with an idea and then other people get all excited and the conversation takes off from their, whereas for me, and maybe for other INFP's I don't know for sure, its like I talk and people are either like "I have no idea what you are talking about" or "wow, that was deep, my head hurts, now back to what we were doing before.."
 

Southern Kross

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^ :yes:

Up until my mid-20s, I admired EXFPs more than other types (although now I'm more even handed in my type admiration) simply because they seemed like the better version of me. ENFPs especially impressed me. They are so warm, vivacious and charismatic for starters, but the fact the combine that with quirk, wit and intelligence really wins me over. And I don't know who the hell isn't taking them seriously, because I always have.

So yeah, I do feel inadequate compared to ENFPs. They seem have all the qualities I have, but they actually manage to make them look charming and appealing, rather than weird and off-putting. :shrug:

I totally get what you mean, Scott, about, "it's better to be lucky than good" and that last paragraph of yours. I might have interesting qualities or ideas but I have no ability to showcase them in a way that people respond to - I simply lack the verbal and social skills to convey things effectively. And I don't even have that cool-and-mysterious-Introvert thing to fall back on. :laugh:
 

mintleaf

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for the record I am a male INFP, and largely thinking about female ENFP's.

about INFP's being taken more seriously:
I had to think about this some, but I have seen situations where ENFP's are not taken as seriously during conversations. However, they are usually enjoyed and popular and get people/class to laugh when they talk.
When I think of work/school conversations from when I was in science/engineering/technology, I definitely didnt feel like my "INFP contribution" was desired very often, if ever. GUess thats working in NT-land for you. However, and maybe this is just the INTJ-ENFP fetishist thing, I saw many times where ENFP's got lots of reception and attention from said NT/INTJ's and the ENFP's would be all over the place with their Ne brainstorming and the INTJ's would constantly be like "good idea" "good question" "your so interesting" etc.

I'm currently in school for medical training, and we I've seen probably almost every MBTI type among my peers by now. So we have pretty good variety, including a near 50-50 split between men and women. I feel like I see a lot of strongly-E woman [ESFP, ENFP, ESFJ] and then a ENFP comes in and the strongly-E women are all like "we love your energy" "your so enthusiastic" "we love you" "your so great" etc. Then I look at us various I's, especially male I's, and well sometimes it almost seems like we get passed over *just* for not being loud/social/demonstrative enough. "Its not what you know its how loudly you do it" could perhaps be the catchphrase there. Now, to be fair, I like the ENFP(s) in qstn, and I think they are good people and good workers.

I think INFP's are frequently awesome once you get to know them. But for pure "social pow" and "hey, this person seems interesting" I think ENFP's totally win that category. Quoting form skylights in the "ENFP's in friendship and love" thread: "I definitely tend to shy away from spending 1-on-1 time with people... who are very, very quiet, so that I always have to initiate." Now, personally I've been called a "chatty kathy" more times than I can count, but realistically I think in many many cases INFP's are seen as, fairly or not, those very very quiet people skylights was talking about. It seems like ENFP's generally don't have that "problem."

I personally feel like well developed ENFP's and INFP's, and by well developed I mean here strong Fi and strong Ne, can definitely "play in each others worlds." With that said, usually INFP's seem at their best when they bring their warm safe nurturing accepting presence to others. INFP's can definitely think outside of the box and innovate, but I'm not sure how often we gene rally do that. I'm not sure if ENFP's are more known for being either 1) super creative all-over-the-place idea brainstormers or 2) also having a warm accepting easygoing and possibly nurturing social presence. I've seen plenty of ENFP's do both of those things pretty well, and jump between them pretty easily.

When I think of the ENFP's that I know, I think INFP's are generally more effective at 1) being grounded [if non-engaging], 2) being calm, 3) bringing a calming presence to others, 4) focusing, 5) staying focused, and 6) accomplishing work via staying focused. maybe I should add 7) having a life that doesnt resemble a hurricane or tornado

There is that saying "its better to be lucky than good." In a world where it is often far much more about who you know than what you know, I think an alternate saying should "its better to be social/popular/or well-known than it is to be good/skilled/SME."

If absolutely nothing else, strong-E's seem to really prefer ENFP's over INFP's ime.

About ENFP's being taken more seriously when they talk: personally I feel like ENFP's just lightly say something or flirt with an idea and then other people get all excited and the conversation takes off from their, whereas for me, and maybe for other INFP's I don't know for sure, its like I talk and people are either like "I have no idea what you are talking about" or "wow, that was deep, my head hurts, now back to what we were doing before.."

I definitely agree with your last paragraph. the rest, too, but that perfectly describes the contrast I've seen between ENFPs' and INFPs' social stature. INFPs tend to be put on a pedestal and set apart, while ExFPs are more often the heart of a social group. both types are well-received, but in different ways. that being said I know hardly any NFPs at all (maybe 3? :cry:), so I don't know how true this is in general.

the only thing that bothers me about how ENFPs are received is that people tend to view them as stronger and more autonomous than INFPs -- in my experience at least -- and I wish people would realize that INFPs can be just as tough. I get way too many people being overly gentle with me.
 

Scott N Denver

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I think people often feel like they can relate to ENFP's, or at least pretend they can. I can't even begin to count the number of times people have said something to me like "I dont get you" "your weird" "whats wrong with you." I dont doubt that ENFP's get told that as well, but I've never heard anyone say it, and I cant help but feel like if people did tell them that there would be some caveat like "but we love your enthusiasm!" or "your so creative and outside of the box" or osme other more positive spin to it.

at worst, even if other people dont get either INFP's or ENFP's at least they seem to find the ENFP "socially engaging", "enthusiastic", or "interesting" as opposed to "your personality is as boring as a blank piece of paper" or "why dont you just go sit underneath that tree over there and read your book, the rest of us have stuff to do" or "unicornville is over there weird idealistic unrealistic dreamer weirdo you, let us know how the leprechauns are doing today"

Would any INFP's here like to disagree, or honestly claim that they have never seen or experienced the above?
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION], I'd truly be interested to hear your thoughts on why you think INFP's often have an easier go of things than do ENFP's. Maybe our heads are less "all over the place", but in "social acceptance" or having deep-E's like you instead of think your weird and avoid you or act like you don't exist, or pretty much any group/collective social metric I think its totally all about "ENFP's for the win."
 

hazelsees

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I wish I felt as enthusiastic about people as you seem to! :heart: I'm really disenchanted with everyone right now, even my fellow NFPs

Well, I do love people although they wear me out. I have a tendency to make excuses for bad behavior and am often "called" on it. I just think that there's a reason for bad behavior and...I don't know....there's only a couple of people that I dislike.

Scott probably wanted more tangible things or reasons or something. I think I had had an adult beverage that night, so was feeling extremely loving when I wrote that first post.

ENFPs are more dynamic (to me), but INFPs have depth and it's easier to feel that you, as an individual, have their undivided attention. ENFPs--just look at me! Do you really like me? Or am I nothing special to you! I can't tell!"

So, to answer the Scott's question, no, I never see INFPs as inadequate compared to ENFPs, just different.
 

skylights

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@skylights, I'd truly be interested to hear your thoughts on why you think INFP's often have an easier go of things than do ENFP's. Maybe our heads are less "all over the place", but in "social acceptance" or having deep-E's like you instead of think your weird and avoid you or act like you don't exist, or pretty much any group/collective social metric I think its totally all about "ENFP's for the win."

Well, for me, the first important thing is that just being an E doesn't make you socially fluid, or even social. Personally, I was really a wallflower until I was in college, actually, and I'm still really pretty ambiverted - as are most ENFPs - so it's odd to me to hear how ENFPs are socially celebrated. I think the thing that's getting to me is the confounding of factors in terms of it being ENFPness in and of itself that inspires social celebration - it's not. If an ENFP is socially celebrated, it's probably either because they're openly social (which not all ENFPs are), or because they have something positive to contribute, and contributed it to the right people.

Often it seems like people who are not social turn against social people for being social, as if they did something wrong. I used to do this myself... I begrudged the people on the "inside", thinking that they didn't want me. Since then I've learned that most social people are welcoming of new people, introvert, ambivert, or extravert. Social people are not actively excluding introverts and ambiverts; they're just being themselves and interacting as they understand to be best. Social people are socially celebrated because they contribute to the social realm... it's as simple as that, really. Social people know how to respond and interact with other social people because everyone puts themselves out there, so a living environment of action and response is created and modulated - a society. Social people struggle with less-social people because it's hard to know what to do with them in a social setting. How do you include them? Do they even want to be included? If they don't want to be included, how do you still treat them kindly without including them? If you're making a group effort or plan to do something out of the norm, should you include them? Do they want to be included?

It's all contingent upon information that non-social people don't typically share, so it can be a challenge to interact with them in a group setting. I've learned this especially being a leader with really introverted people on my teams. One of the introverted girls I work with is possibly the best worker there; she could probably run the place if she wanted to. Problem is, no one really knows what she wants most of the time, because she doesn't voice it, even when asked. For those of us who try to account for everyone in our calculations, that really poses a challenge. Of course we can talk in private, but so much goes on in the group setting and we have so little time that we can't really just step aside every time, plus that would make it unfair to everyone else who doesn't get private consideration. I would like for us to be able to break down in smaller teams more often, but the realities of the workplace make that difficult.

I think honestly it boils down to it's hard for very social people, often strong extraverts, to know what to do with you or how to approach you when you're a strong introvert, because you're not really putting much data out for the extravert to engage with. It's really a failure of communication on both sides, or even mostly a failure on the extraverted end because we don't know what to do with a lack of external information. It shouldn't be translated into people not liking or appreciating introverts, because it's really just a communication breakdown. The irony is that if INFPs were more vocal about wanting recognition, they would get it.

My point being, I don't think there's anything about INFPness in and of itself that makes INFPs less socially valuable. INFPs may have a harder time engaging socially because it's not your natural dominant process to be extraverted, but in terms of value and contribution, which is what the social group seeks, INFPs are on par with ENFPs. The thought that an INFP is like a socially-stunted ENFP doesn't help anyone. INFPs are invaluable for dominant Fi processing of emotion, depth, tone, validity, compassion, and value-based judgment, and those kind of contributions would be very appreciated in many groups. INFPs have better stability, more groundedness, and more of a consistent internal structure that can be relied upon over and over. INFPs are calmer and less volatile. They also do better in small groups, where they really shine both as mediators and contributors. For certain positions, an INFP is the clear choice.

And the question, of course, is what can we do about this situation? My first thought is that we try to break down into smaller groups more, so INFP talents can be maximized. What else, introverts? Where do you shine brightest?
 

ChocolateMoose123

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An ENFP would be my mistress but I'd never leave my hypothetical INFP wife. At least, that's the dynamic I have with these types. See? Good for everything! :)
 

violet_crown

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INFP's, do you ever feel inadequate compared to ENFP's?

non-INFP's, do you often see INFP's as inadequate compared to ENFP's?

Personally, I don't feel like ENFP's are quite as warm and gooey as we are, but they do a tremendously more effective job of communicating their warm gooeyness to the rest of the world than we do. I think much of the rest of the world is not "interested in depth" enough to find out how warm and gooey we are. So yes, I sometimes feel inadequate when compared to ENFP's.

*noms thoughtfully on dejected INFP's arm*
 

mintleaf

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My point being, I don't think there's anything about INFPness in and of itself that makes INFPs less socially valuable. INFPs may have a harder time engaging socially because it's not your natural dominant process to be extraverted, but in terms of value and contribution, which is what the social group seeks, INFPs are on par with ENFPs. The thought that an INFP is like a socially-stunted ENFP doesn't help anyone. INFPs are invaluable for dominant Fi processing of emotion, depth, tone, validity, compassion, and value-based judgment, and those kind of contributions would be very appreciated in many groups. INFPs have better stability, more groundedness, and more of a consistent internal structure that can be relied upon over and over. INFPs are calmer and less volatile. They also do better in small groups, where they really shine both as mediators and contributors. For certain positions, an INFP is the clear choice.

:) you just listed some of the qualities I like best about myself.

What would you say are ENFPs' social strengths, then? My impression -- only knowing 2 ENFPs at most -- is that this lack of groundedness has its good points. More flexibility, spontaneity, less solipsism, etc. This could be founded entirely on stereotypes, though.

I think honestly it boils down to it's hard for very social people, often strong extraverts, to know what to do with you or how to approach you when you're a strong introvert, because you're not really putting much data out for the extravert to engage with. It's really a failure of communication on both sides, or even mostly a failure on the extraverted end because we don't know what to do with a lack of external information. It shouldn't be translated into people not liking or appreciating introverts, because it's really just a communication breakdown.

I don't usually feel unappreciated as an introvert, but it is frustrating when extraverts expect more "data" from me. It's just more natural for me to absorb than contribute. I'm glad you pointed this out, because I always forget that I don't communicate with extraverts as well as I should. It seems like finding a better balance would be really rewarding.
 

Sharshura

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An ENFP would be my mistress but I'd never leave my hypothetical INFP wife. At least, that's the dynamic I have with these types. See? Good for everything! :)

No self-respecting ENFP would ever be a mistress.
 
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