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  1. #101
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    General question for anybody: how frequently, or perhaps non-frequently, are INFP's grounded or grounding for others? I have been for like most of my life, as many people have told me, but I've also done lots of yoga, martial arts, outdoorsy time, and spent most of my life around the military. So I'm not exactly anybody's "stereotypical INFP"! I've also had the often-not-privilege of having Te "take precedence over everything else", so I'm almost certainly far more Te-capable than many other INFP's. I'm also very well-connected and "tame" in my Ne and its application. I do feel less NF-y than mnay other NF's though, and definitely much less NFP-y than most other NFP's.

    Part of what I so like about ENFP's is that they really "put out there" and "let it all hang out there" stuff that so many things in my life taught me "were not socially appropriate." Anti-Fi, anti-Ne, attitudes, pro "squared away STJ-ness." ENFP's are like "healers" for me, showing me ways to "put it all [Fi, Ne] out there, and have it be socially acceptable." That and/or they show me "not to [care] if other people dont appreciate having Fi and Ne put it out there and to do it anyways."

  2. #102
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Aw damn. I've broken down and am getting ready to read this entire thread. I'll be back soon.
    its uhh, its rather long...

    I started it all. I posted somewhere later on why I started the thread, and debated whether to include said content in my first entry or not. In the interest of time, and not further upsetting myself, I elected not to. I think that got the thread very mis-interpreted for quite some time. I think we have largely figured things out and settle down now though.

  3. #103
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't use Fi to prioritize - that's Si, meaning I struggle with it too, just less than an ENFP. Just some clarification... Si prioritizing looks like valuation to people though, and why Fi gets misunderstood, IMO (people think it's like SiJe, probably due to mistyped e9 Si-dom; I prefer to think of Ji as creating judgement concepts as opposed to applying judgement like Je). The idea of INFPs being grounded is bizarre to me. Don't relate to it. I tend to pursue what's important to me - and that doesn't just mean "interests" or "likes" - and perhaps this looks self-disciplined at times. Prioritizing in terms of tasks is hard for me. Head starts to spin and I end up doing nothing. Probably better at it than most ENFPs though, true. I think if you're looking to learn there, an xSTJ is a better road map. [...]

    Perceptions in here from ENFPs use words like "grounded" for INFPs. I've never once had this feedback in person or anything close to it. This to me is a perception from ENFPs, but not really an accurate picture of INFPs if you survey many people of varying types & get an overview of how they're viewed IRL as individuals.
    I mean prioritization in terms of what you value, not task prioritization. It can be a huge challenge for me to choose which thing I value more when presented with two options that seem equally engaging. INFPs don't seem to experience this as much.

    Following that, I mean grounded in the sense that INFPs are very aware of what they value.
    Last edited by skylights; 04-11-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    INFP's, do you ever feel inadequate compared to ENFP's?

    non-INFP's, do you often see INFP's as inadequate compared to ENFP's?

    Personally, I don't feel like ENFP's are quite as warm and gooey as we are, but they do a tremendously more effective job of communicating their warm gooeyness to the rest of the world than we do. I think much of the rest of the world is not "interested in depth" enough to find out how warm and gooey we are. So yes, I sometimes feel inadequate when compared to ENFP's.
    Inadequate? Not unless I stop trying AND you want trouble. We are warmer than a flannel duvet over goose down.

  5. #105
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I second @skylights on the groundedness issue

    We need to jump about and flit around first and visit all angles before we can settle down on what we believe, making us often seem flaky and unreliable to others, as we are still making up our minds. And this can make people very irritated and nervous.

    The calm, grounded confidence that INFPs have on knowing what they want and who they are (even if they cant get it executed) tends to rub off on others, ime.
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  6. #106
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    General question for anybody: how frequently, or perhaps non-frequently, are INFP's grounded or grounding for others? I have been for like most of my life, as many people have told me, but I've also done lots of yoga, martial arts, outdoorsy time, and spent most of my life around the military. So I'm not exactly anybody's "stereotypical INFP"! I've also had the often-not-privilege of having Te "take precedence over everything else", so I'm almost certainly far more Te-capable than many other INFP's. I'm also very well-connected and "tame" in my Ne and its application. I do feel less NF-y than mnay other NF's though, and definitely much less NFP-y than most other NFP's.

    Part of what I so like about ENFP's is that they really "put out there" and "let it all hang out there" stuff that so many things in my life taught me "were not socially appropriate." Anti-Fi, anti-Ne, attitudes, pro "squared away STJ-ness." ENFP's are like "healers" for me, showing me ways to "put it all [Fi, Ne] out there, and have it be socially acceptable." That and/or they show me "not to [care] if other people dont appreciate having Fi and Ne put it out there and to do it anyways."
    INFPs definitely seem more grounded and less "in the clouds" than ENFPs. I think it's both less pervasive Ne and on the flipside of that, stronger Si. INFPs are much more reliable than ENFPs. ENFPs seem incredibly forgetful, even of people and things that are very important to them. INFPs are more reliable, but also less tolerant of others' unreliability. I think that has to do with the stronger Fi.
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  7. #107
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    OK. I've read about half of this thread so far. I wanted to take a break and share an observation about some of the frustrations expressed earlier in this thread:

    From the perspective of an ENFP with fairly well-developed Te, INFPs (with their inferior Te) can sometimes seem to spin their wheels... and this can be very frustrating. Te is all about coming up with a concrete, logically sequential plan on how to get from point A to point B, then taking bold action to see that plan through. INFPs can certainly do this, too, but - in general - they don't do it as readily as ENFPs do. (Again, we see the difference between tertiary Te and inferior Te.)

    It seems to me like there might be a little of this "Te frustration" going on in this thread. For example, @skylights made the remark (and I'm loosely paraphrasing here here), that her posts weren't impacting the thread very much and this was frustrating for her. Well, I hear a lot of Te frustration in what she said. Te needs to feel like it's going somewhere... like it's getting something accomplished. It seems to me that skylights was feeling frustrated (and skylights, feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting you here) because she wasn't seeing that her posts were making any headway.

    By the same token, I saw a lot of INFP use of Si in response to skylight's posts. As I understand it, Si is about storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. Si revels in such analysis. And the INFPs posting in this thread would read what skylights posted and use their Si to analyze what she was saying (Si)... but not necessarily change their behavior (Te).

    ^^^^
    I only bring up the above observation because I wanted to relate it to the original post in this thread which, in essence, asked how INFPs and ENFPs are different (or at least this is what I think @Scott N Denver was getting at). Te versus Si. INFPs and ENFPs have a lot in common, but I think this can be a sizable divide between INFPs and ENFPs.

    I'd love to hear some INFP / Si perspective on this. Maybe I'm completely off, but the tertiary Te versus tertiary Si thing seems pretty important to me and worthy of some discussion. (BTW, I think it's INFPs' Si that makes them seem grounding.)
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  8. #108
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    INFPs definitely seem more grounded and less "in the clouds" than ENFPs. I think it's both less pervasive Ne and on the flipside of that, stronger Si. INFPs are much more reliable than ENFPs. ENFPs seem incredibly forgetful, even of people and things that are very important to them. INFPs are more reliable, but also less tolerant of others' unreliability. I think that has to do with the stronger Fi.
    I was thinking more in terms of demeanor - who is more "present". ENFPs seem more in-touch with what's "going on". I guess that is my idea of grounded.

    I agree with that summation @Esoteric Wench. I don't think this thread was meant to go anywhere, from an INFP's perspective. I notice ENFPs want quicker closure on topics, but then will rehash again. For an INFP, it's more like thorough examination til exhaustion, then a more final closure.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  9. #109
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I was thinking more in terms of demeanor - who is more "present". ENFPs seem more in-touch with what's "going on". I guess that is my idea of grounded.
    They do seem that way, but I've specifically asked certain ENFPs about that before, and have gotten the answer that they really aren't as aware as they seem. That seems accurate too. There are certain things about people's behavior that they just don't get; some ways that they're less aware than a typical INTJ even. INFPs don't seem to have quite the same level of cluelessness in this way. They're more certain of both themselves and the people around them. ENFPs are in constant flux. In the way I understand the word to mean, they are easily the least grounded personality type of all. ENTPs are close, but being primarily thinkers makes them seem a little more "real." Both ENFPs and INFPs have their strengths and weaknesses. Instead of wishing you were ENFPs, embrace what you have. INFPs bring their own great qualities to the table, and shouldn't be ashamed of that. I do agree though that ENFPs can be very imposing. Even as a TJ, I've often felt inadequate among some of the ENFPs I've known. Their presence is just so strong, and the way they're able to connect with people is admirable, and I really wish I had more of that ability myself. But what I do have is something unique of its own, and it's not worth giving up for anything else. We all have something to give. Let's quit comparing ourselves to others.
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  10. #110
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    we had our evals at school today. one of my evaluators is an ENFP. She is the one I was thinking of the most when I started this thread.

    Me: "I want to speak about [ENFP] some before we get started... I was very impressed by her overall. She is very smart, ske is very knowledgeable, she presents herself well, she speaks well, everyone speaks very highly of her, they are almost glowing with their praise, I'm just waiting for someone to say that she 'walks on water', I've never heard anyone say anything bad about her"
    teacher: "I don't think anyone could have anything bad to say about her"
    me: "yes, exactly. she definitely had an impact of effect on everyone it seems."
    teacher: "yeah, pretty much everyone thinks she is awesome"
    me: "yeah, I can totally see that."
    teacher: "[ENFP] is beautiful on the inside and the outside, she really is."
    me: "yes, yes she is"

    I spoke with [ENFP] when she and I said goodbye, and I told her "people speak extremely highly of you, its practically glowing, I'm just waiting for someone to say that you walk on water or something, I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about you. To me thats very impressive, because for example, I definitely can't say that no one has ever had a bad thing to say about me." [various personal thoughts about how INFPs are often viewed by others and how ENFP's often seen much better about "putting themselves out there" and "people 'getting' them and how they are]


    me speaking to [ENFP]: "you succeed where I fail"
    things said but didnt have time to say: "people look at you and they "get" you, they see what you about, someone like me, I can't even begin to count how many times I've been called "an enigma", or "hard to understand" or "what is that guy about?!?!" or the like.

    Other INFP's feel free to chime in from personal experience, and others feel free to chime in with outside perspectives, but I think one of the most common non-strengths of INFP's is not that we somehow lack skills/depth/caring/whatever, but that the way we possess and display such things is not necessarily particularly "immediately obvious and detectable to others." And then other people do "get" us, what we are about, and where we are coming from, and then they think we are like the most awesome thing ever, saintly, too nice, extremely touching, inspirational, or whatever else.

    I'm just an outsider looking in here, but I feel that while few people really understand either INFP's or ENFP's, INFP's are often this "mysterious" "alone in the corner" "hard to understand" "deep, maybe too deep for thier own good" whatever, whereas ENFP's might have many of the same interests and goals as INFP's and society may basically truly understand just as little about ENFP's as society understands INFPS but society/groups/whoever will look at ENFP's, not really understand them but go "hey, look how energetic and social and spontaneous and easygoing these people are, we like them!" and even when ENFP's are erratic, moody, all over the place, scattered etc, society seems to give them a free pass because they are easy and fun to be around. Fellow INFP's, how often has anyone ever really told us that we are "fun to be around"? Deep, thoughtful, considerate, kind, insightful, touching, heartwarming etc, absolutely. "Fun to be around", I can't say I've heard that one thrown around about us all that often.

    This is more of a personal thought, and quite possibly not generally applicable in this discussion, but personally I find myself forming the comparison between "saint" and "guru." Basically, saints always have to be nice, people see them, people get them, people feel comfortable around them, saints make you feel good about yourself. A guru goes beyond a saint, is bound by extreme ethical considerations, but is not required to "play nice" in the conventional understanding of that concept. A guru is more powerful, deeper, and can "take one further", whereas saints basically make people feel "warm and fuzzy." Most people prefer "warm and fuzzy". ENFP's seem to often be better at being quickly perceived as and acting from "warm and fuzzy", as opposed to the INFP tendency for INFP's to be "deep and intense, and hard to relate to or understand!"


    to quickly summarize much of the above:
    INFP's: hard to understand
    ENFP's: not that other people necessarily understand them either, but they are so energetic and easygoing that people seem to just like them anyways


    All NFP's are awesome!

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