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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    It'd be nice, but seems to come at such a heavy cost to a woman.
    Heavier than to a man?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't relate to it either, but it's not sad to me. It's actually surprising someone would openly say it though.

    I don't even think it's a social expectation for women anymore (as evidenced by most people's reactions to it). People who want families instead of careers or fame or achievement are often seen as sad now, as if they're wasting themselves. I think that's kind of sad too. It's like anything in the intimate realm is not regarded as satisfying or fulfilling; it must be public achievement as measured by others instead of your own internal experience.

    But most people don't think it's sad if you were to say, "I'd like to be a doctor so I can help people in pain" or something like that. But why is it pathetic to nurture, help, care for, etc, in the wife role? Because it's unpaid, without prestige?

    Or it's generally not seen as sad to say, "It's my dream to find a lasting, deep love with someone." But having a dream where you're in a loving, committed relationship as a "wife" is sad?

    I imagine someone who says this has possibly examined their needs & aptitudes & decided "wife" is a good fit for them. I think nowadays, it may even take some courage to say that, because ideals have shifted so much in a different direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That ideals have shifted? I think they have, even if there are some still promoting old fashioned ways, and people will be judged as old fashioned in a pathetic way by everyone else. Anytime you oppose the majority philosophy & leave yourself open to their criticism, whether by trailblazing or sticking to what they call outdated, there's some courage involved. That doesn't always make it noble courage.

    Personally, I'm not saying all old ideals were better either (because they aren't my ideals). I just see a real false dichotomy created between the modern & old ideals, as if it's one or the other & they always oppose each other. It also makes it seem as if a certain path means one thing & one thing only. The assumption that someone would come from a conservative church to have such a "dream" is exactly what I mean... Because I don't think someone saying their dream to be a wife means "1950s housewife" or giving up their own identity & needs/wants. Perhaps someone saying this has a different idea of "wife" (which is kind of what I was getting at in my comparison to being a doctor or finding love, etc).

    To me, what takes courage is saying, "I know what suits me, regardless of these popular, external ideals of the moment". So that's why I wouldn't think it's sad. Do I fully get their dream? No. I personally see it as a bit naive, but I see a lot of "dreams" that way now, especially when they involve roles to reach personal fulfillment (including most careers).
    I really like these posts.

    I also have to say: I'm sorry, what you've described here makes women look really bad.

    It makes them look swept along and dominated by whatever is currently the cultural paradigm.

    Ironically, their desire for autonomy seems, on the whole, to be largely non-autonomous.

  2. #32
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Reading the entirety of this thread, I think to myself, boy are people presumptuous.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #33
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    "My Dream is to be a Wife" ... does this quote disturb anyone else?
    Depends who's saying it.

    A 16 year old girl? Surprising more than disturbing.
    A 35 year old woman who's already done the independance thing to death and had grown sick of it? Then it's depressing than anything else.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Depends who's saying it.

    A 16 year old girl? Surprising more than disturbing.
    A 35 year old woman who's already done the independance thing to death and had grown sick of it? Then it's depressing than anything else.
    So 25.5 is the sweet spot?

    Sounds about right...


  5. #35
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    I wonder what being a "wife" means to everyone here.

  6. #36
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Heavier than to a man?
    Not in all aspects of her life, but certainly career-wise. In that regard, I do think women typically make more compromises and ultimately give up more.

    However, to be fair, I can see how a man who spends all his time working to support his family and never gets to see them could end up feeling equally jilted, and without having had the explicit option to choose posed to him that a women does.

    Perhaps what would have been more accurate to say was that work culture isn't conducive to the reality of dual-income households, and everyone is penalized as a result. What do you think?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Not in all aspects of her life, but certainly career-wise. In that regard, I do think women typically make more compromises and ultimately give up more.

    However, to be fair, I can see how a man who spends all his time working to support his family and never gets to see them could end up feeling equally jilted, and without having had the explicit option to choose posed to him that a women does.

    Perhaps what would have been more accurate to say was that work culture isn't conducive to the reality of dual-income households, and everyone is penalized as a result. What do you think?
    I think it can come at a heavy cost to either of them.

    It all just depends on what they're looking for, and what they're willing to do to get it.

    I think work certainly makes things more difficult, but that two strong-willed individuals aligned in vision can make anything happen.

  8. #38
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    No, it's your life, nobody should insult you for doing what you want to do.
    I really like cats and food.

  9. #39
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    No.
    I don't get why it's disturbing to some either.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Not in all aspects of her life, but certainly career-wise. In that regard, I do think women typically make more compromises and ultimately give up more.
    are we assuming a Stepford Wife?

    because on a more modern tone, from what i gather, the main cost for women's career isn't the marriage so much as maternity leave and extended time off thereafter, but given life-long jobs are becoming increasingly rare for everyone anyway, and more people have to change jobs and cross disciplines at an increasing frequency, the setback is being diminished to holes in the resume.

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