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  1. #11
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Why do some INFJ's do this?

    Is it because they themselves want to be saved? a form of white knight syndrome?
    That's only types 2 and 4 in enneagram. Seeing best in people etc. My ex was INFJ type 1 and there was none of this... very self-sufficient, organized person who would turn down help from others, and high ideals and standards for others. Look into enneagram types because they make a huuuuge difference in desires and motivations of MBTI types.

  2. #12
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I am not looking to be saved or rescued. However, I would agree that:

    1) Other people's negative emotions affect me a lot. It is easier for me to try to solve whatever is bothering them (because of how it impacts me), rather than just leaving it be. I think maybe INFJs have a more permeable emotional barrier. Hence the difficultly sometimes in even sorting out where the source of our emotional discomfort is originating and where the responsibility lies to deal with it.

    The closer I am to someone, the more their discomfort or unhappiness or negativity affects me. This is part of the reason why someone doing something just to humour me really isn't enjoyable at all to me. Unless I know that they are feeling content as well, their accommodation doesn't help me. Hence, I often tend to overaccommodate, sometimes to the point of resentment (especially when they don't recognize that I am choosing their comfort over mine). As I've gotten older, I'm getting better about this, but it's still difficult to decide when I am overaccommodating, as part of my tendency that way is an attempt to quiet the discomfort I am feeling.

    This is also a reason why I dislike larger gatherings, especially of disparate friends. I am very aware of how everyone is feeling, how they are all interacting, whether they are all comfortable and so on. The more people you add to the mix, the more there is to juggle and it's difficult to make it all work well.

    2) Because I don't say anything initially when I am still gathering information, and because I have delayed processing due to Ni, many people assume that I am a lot more pliable, accepting or open than I really am. I am a fairly warm person and want to put others at ease, and sometimes that draws out the people that don't really fit in normally or that act in a socially odd manner. I've gotten better at not putting out welcome signs for those types in the same way that I used to as it has sometimes given a message I didn't intend to send.

    3) There is something very satisfying in being of assistance to someone. I think every type has its area of expertise. My focus is figuring out why people act the way they do. I'm not saying I'm always right, but I think I do pay attention to human puzzles more than the average person might. I find it interesting. I also feel best when what I can offer is of use to someone in a practical way. I like to maximize the potential in other people. I don't enjoy fixing people. However, discovering where they shine best, or increasing their confidence in their own abilities is satisfying.

    I think INFJs' biggest downfall is the delayed processing that doesn't always allow them to assess a situation in real time. By the time they have decided what they think about it, they are in fairly deep. They also choose other people's emotional comfort over theirs (strangely enough to increase their own comfort level), which can lead to being taken advantage of or seen as pushovers (when that is truly not the case - they actually can see what's going on and dislike it, but they also want to be seen as fair and not overemotional, so it takes awhile to prove to themselves that their initial feelings were justified and worth acting on). They often find it difficult to know at what point to bring something up, as individual instances seem too small and petty, yet they contribute to an overall picture that is very significant. It takes awhile to gather sufficient evidence for themselves that the problem is not them and that alternative action is required, particularly with people who have gained their trust.
    Last edited by fidelia; 03-20-2013 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #13
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I identify with pathos and cafe's answers.

    DJ, it was a big surprise to me to understand from here how difficult it is for some types to listen to others vent. It had never occurred to me that they might misread my venting (a way of ridding myself of excess emotion and clarifying the problem by saying it aloud so that I could get on with solving it) or find it an annoying or debilitating burden. I think I have a tendency to overassume that people process things in the same way I do, and so it never occurs to me that they don't find that sort of thing satisfying or derive some pleasure from helping the other person in that way. My time here has made me more aware of the differences between me and other types, so that I can overtly explain how I think better to them, and so that I show appreciation (and don't overburden people) for the things they do for me that allow me to get on with dealing with the issue at hand.

  4. #14
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    It makes me happy to be a helpful resource for others, but I learned a long time ago that what I can offer has clear limits. I cannot "save" anyone, but I can possibly help anyone. I'm not terribly controlling of others, so my help tends to be offers of resources which they may or may not accept. I can be at peace about the rejection of my resources.

    I do have a strong drive to help because I was the youngest in a vulnerable and scarred family. I loved being a strength to my mother and siblings, but as I've matured I've had to learn to draw boundaries so that my own needs are also met.

    I also have some empathy, so when someone else is made happy, I feel it as well. This helps to motivate me to help others. I also have enough empathy to feel that it is disrespectful to assume someone needs saving. Each person is the expert of their life because on that person knows the myriad of details and nuances that drive their choices. If someone feels disrespected, I feel it too, and that is why I leave my sense of contribution as an offer and never intended as an intrusion.
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  5. #15
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Why do some INFJ's do this?

    Is it because they themselves want to be saved? a form of white knight syndrome?

    How come vast's song (I've always considered them INFJ or ISTP, one of the two) "Take me with you" has the lyrics "I will save you... If you save me...?"

    What's the deal?

    I'm curious as to why INFJs are being singled out here, as opposed to "NFs and saving people". Is there something particularly grating about the way INFJs go about following their 'idealism' that's leading to this question being asked? (eta: or maybe it's not grating, but my point is- what makes the INFJ version so distinct here?)


    eta: also, +1 to what cafe and fid have written.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'm curious as to why INFJs are being singled out here, as opposed to "NFs and saving people". Is there something particularly grating about the way INFJs go about following their 'idealism' that's leading to this question being asked? (eta: or maybe it's not grating, but my point is- what makes the INFJ version so distinct here?)


    eta: also, +1 to what cafe and fid have written.
    I don't believe this is too far fetched. From a functional standpoint, Fe is concerned far more with external emotional atmosphere, so it would follow that those already predisposed to such would try to "reset the temperature" so to speak; whereas, those with Fi dominance tend to do so less as the temperature is mainly regulated within.
    @DJ Arendee Hi! We talked on your board yesterday

    My basis is that I get a sense of pleasure from helping others. As just an INTJ gets a sense of pleasure for finding a solution for a complex problem, I feel beholden to helping others. This is to an extent, however. As just an INTJ will eventually realize whatever cogitations (Ni) moot due to infeasibility (Te), an INFJ will quickly run to "this is useless" and denounce helping the person, perhaps even becoming quite scathing in the process. It isn't unbridled or unlimited in a sainthood sense; it is on the contrary, very limited. Je is are pragmatic; as a result, there is a limitation, especially with introverts as Je takes them away from introvertedness.

    Furthermore, without developed Ti, INFJs are beholden (I believe) to seeing the fault of a loved one be their fault. As the feelings of the other are cast upon them, they too "feel it" and as such become unsettled by it until they can fix it (which means fixing it in the other person). With Ti intervening, you may find some INFJs to be quite apt to say "Fuck it" and cut off.

  7. #17
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    I've thought more about wanting to be saved.
    I am fairly independent and rarely ask for help because to do so makes me feel vulnerable. A damsel in distress is not the image I want to put out or the role I desire. However, there is something deep inside that wants to be vulnerable, I think, and that is why I related to the E4 description of wanting to attract a rescuer.
    It's that I want someone to understand me so deeply and completely and still be okay with all the stuff they find--the ugly and dark as well as the bright, shiny and fun--and then maybe I can let myself be open and exposed. I imagine it to be the scariest thing in the world--to be vulnerable and let someone else be in control.
    If I focus on saving others than I'm satisfying all sorts of needs for others and myself AND direct attention away from my own "stuff".

  8. #18
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elocute View Post
    My basis is that I get a sense of pleasure from helping others. As just an INTJ gets a sense of pleasure for finding a solution for a complex problem, I feel beholden to helping others. This is to an extent, however. As just an INTJ will eventually realize whatever cogitations (Ni) moot due to infeasibility (Te), an INFJ will quickly run to "this is useless" and denounce helping the person, perhaps even becoming quite scathing in the process. It isn't unbridled or unlimited in a sainthood sense; it is on the contrary, very limited. Je is are pragmatic; as a result, there is a limitation, especially with introverts as Je takes them away from introvertedness.

    Furthermore, without developed Ti, INFJs are beholden (I believe) to seeing the fault of a loved one be their fault. As the feelings of the other are cast upon them, they too "feel it" and as such become unsettled by it until they can fix it (which means fixing it in the other person). With Ti intervening, you may find some INFJs to be quite apt to say "Fuck it" and cut off.

    Interesting post, as usual.

    What struck me first about your post, is that personally, I feel that way about finding a solution to a problem. I seem to particularly be drawn to social issues, and always have been. When I can figure out the why's and wherefore's for something complex, I derive special pleasure from that. Sometimes that is a person, sometimes it is a problem unrelated to a person. I think that I might really be inxj for this reason. Yes, I do lack the NT thing, but I am also described as cold and aloof by my children. I really think I am a hybrid INJ.

    As for the other paragraph, well, I am not into Ji being a primary function for INJ. But I could see how some INFJs could be adept at Ti, and that combined with their enneatype and ego fixations, might make them more enmeshed in the lives of their significant others, whether that is partners or children, etc. Since I'm not a straight INFJ I really don't know, though I will admit I've seen this behavior in at least one of my known INFJ friends.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    But INFJs do not have a corner on the saving people market by any means. My mom is not an INFJ and she does it all the time and to her own detriment.
    Yep. Guilty as charged.

    Assuming it's Fe-related, I wonder how the ways in which xxFJs go about it would differ, if at all? Or maybe the difference would be in the kinds of "broken" we'd feel a pull to help "fix?" I dunno. Don't mind me.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Interesting post, as usual.

    What struck me first about your post, is that personally, I feel that way about finding a solution to a problem. I seem to particularly be drawn to social issues, and always have been. When I can figure out the why's and wherefore's for something complex, I derive special pleasure from that. Sometimes that is a person, sometimes it is a problem unrelated to a person. I think that I might really be inxj for this reason. Yes, I do lack the NT thing, but I am also described as cold and aloof by my children. I really think I am a hybrid INJ.

    As for the other paragraph, well, I am not into Ji being a primary function for INJ. But I could see how some INFJs could be adept at Ti, and that combined with their enneatype and ego fixations, might make them more enmeshed in the lives of their significant others, whether that is partners or children, etc. Since I'm not a straight INFJ I really don't know, though I will admit I've seen this behavior in at least one of my known INFJ friends.
    Me either; have you looked into socionics? I don't like some of their teachings (e.g. face feature correlations) but I do enjoy some of their subtypes. Intuitive subtypes tend to be what we'd deem tert-dom-phillic in MBTI (it is a pathology in MBTI); however, in socionics, from my view, it seems to be those that are more introverted in their type--they still use their aux (creative in socionics) but not in a direct/conscious manner. INFJs aren't always warm, in fact, I appear cold to most or at least detatched until they get to know me.

    I don't really think you can be hybridic because it would alter your aux/tert quite severely, which would change both your perception and judgement of the world. A lot of INFJs type as INTs due to their logic fixations and aptitude, but I believe this to be more due to Ni/Ti, just as INTJs can be quite internally emotional but seldom show it (Fi)--hence their 'robot' stereotype.

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