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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Are you serious? Some of those are cartoon characters, I think.
    Being a cartoon shouldn't stop anyone from being an INFJ.
    Also I think this thread is seriously hilarious.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #12
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    Jesus was undoubtedly ESFJ.

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Jesus was undoubtedly ESFJ.
    He liked running to the hills alone a lot.

    Not to mention his proclivity to kind of ward people off. In John 6, after the apparent miracle of feeding thousands of people, he ran into them later only to tell them the food he gave them was pointless, and that they should live off the works of God. They seem pleased enough, and ask for help in this. He then tells them they should eat his flesh and blood. He lost thousands of potential followers that day. And even some of his own disciples left too. There are other instances like this where it seems like he was going to purposely sabotage his standing in a group, and make it harder for them to follow. EFJs are different. They sort of welcome dependency (especially the 2s) or adherents.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    He liked running to the hills alone a lot.

    Not to mention his proclivity to kind of ward people off. In John 6, after the apparent miracle of feeding thousands of people, he ran into them later only to tell them the food he gave them was pointless, and that they should live off the works of God. They seem pleased enough, and ask for help in this. He then tells them they should eat his flesh and blood. He lost thousands of potential followers that day. And even some of his own disciples left too. There are other instances like this where it seems like he was going to purposely sabotage his standing in a group, and make it harder for them to follow. EFJs are different. They sort of welcome dependency (especially the 2s) or adherents.

    He was an ESFJ 9, so perhaps that is where we arrive at different conclusions.


    Though the things the church has conjured since his inception is pretty Ni-ish...

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    He was an ESFJ 9, so perhaps that is where we arrive at different conclusions.


    Though the things the church has conjured since his inception is pretty Ni-ish...
    Well, a lot from the book I quoted (John) is full of Ni and symbolism.

    I still don't think he's ESFJ in other depictions either though. He breaks too many rules, brings too many reforms, derides his own countryman and literalism with their cultural outlook, etc.. He doesn't think it's time to die until he finally speaks to some Greeks in the Temple. His mission was outside the box, pushing towards a universal community.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well, a lot from the book I quoted (John) is full of Ni and symbolism.

    I still don't think he's ESFJ in other depictions either though. He breaks too many rules, brings too many reforms, derides his own countryman and literalism with their cultural outlook, etc.. He doesn't think it's time to die until he finally speaks to some Greeks in the Temple. His mission was outside the box, pushing towards a universal community.

    Yes, community. Isn't that the ESFJ's forte, social understanding? And don't tell me ESFJ's can't have goals of progress, what a load.


    I had something else to say but I've forgotten.


    Anyways, yeah. Jesus, ESFJ.

  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Yes, community. Isn't that the ESFJ's forte, social understanding? And don't tell me ESFJ's can't have goals of progress, what a load.


    I had something else to say but I've forgotten.


    Anyways, yeah. Jesus, ESFJ.
    I said universal community. Not just "community". Si's concept of community is based on the user's more particular concept of standards and form. Someone who reflects their culture, family, locale, etc.. "Progress" is whatever champions a sense of timelessness, the past, the familiar. They reflect the community in an immediate sense. Ni is mobile and future oriented rather than immediate. Ni is a hodgepodge, paradoxical, and urges a new vision or adopting new standards for what community even means.

    Would an ESFJ say this:

    "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!"

    Or this:

    Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

    Nothing in the standard sense of "community" was sacred to him. He sought to redefine those concepts.

    It's only a load if you're willing to dump MBTI in general (which may be a good idea. Not sure yet). This is a standard SJ definition. In fact, it's why they're called "Guardians". If you want to make a new definition, and talk about how forward moving they are, I would suggest just dumping MBTI and talking about a new typological model. This way no one gets confused.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I said universal community. Not just "community". Si's concept of community is based on the user's more particular concept of standards and form. Someone who reflects their culture, family, locale, etc.. "Progress" is whatever champions a sense of timelessness, the past, the familiar. They reflect the community in an immediate sense. Ni is mobile and future oriented rather than immediate. Ni is a hodgepodge, paradoxical, and urges a new vision or adopting new standards for what community even means.

    Would an ESFJ say this:

    "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!"

    Or this:

    Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

    Nothing in the standard sense of "community" was sacred to him. He sought to redefine those concepts.

    It's only a load if you're willing to dump MBTI in general (which may be a good idea. Not sure yet). This is a standard SJ definition. In fact, it's why they're called "Guardians". If you want to make a new definition, and talk about how forward moving they are, I would suggest just dumping MBTI and talking about a new typological model. This way no one gets confused.

    Okay, so he found a sense of purpose in an even larger community than the one he was born into, he found a larger herd to shepard. I don't see any inconsistencies.


    You've shown to be fairly uncompromising in your analysis of ISTP's as well, so I don't know what to say. Stick to knowing what others tell you to think, I guess.

  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    You've shown to be fairly uncompromising in your analysis of ISTP's as well, so I don't know what to say. Stick to knowing what others tell you to think, I guess.
    One thing I know about ISTPs is that they don't make irrelevant passive-aggressive swipes, like the above.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    One thing I know about ISTPs is that they don't make irrelevant passive-aggressive swipes, like the above.

    My apologies.

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