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Thread: I just know.

  1. #1
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    Default I just know.

    So...the phrase "I just know" doesn't go over very well. People usually do not tend to trust "I just know."

    How can an "I just know" person learn to find the reasons they "just know"? How can s/he find facts that most types seem to dig?
    And how can I learn to articulate my gut feelings? It's so hard to find words to describe what I'm feeling sometimes. At times, I make up words, but most people don't like those either.

    Also, sometimes I KNOW something is going to happen a certain way and it's not ideal. Lately, I've just been holding my tongue...and is that right? To know something bad is going to happen and not to warn others? To save myself from being poo-poo'd?

    It's really exhausting.

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    Surely there are communicable reasons. I'd find it odd if not, as well.


    Do you have any examples?

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    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Ni tends to be a look down the road function. While it sometimes is inaccurate, more often than not, I think that cause and effect of certain courses of action seems more clear to Ni users than others. Part of the problem is that it takes awhile to figure it all out and decide what it is that has made you arrive at that conclusion. There are always reasons though. If it's something that involves you, I think it is important to listen to your gut because time matters. If it is something that involves other people, then it is important to be able to articulate those reasons before telling them that you think something won't work out well.

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    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    This is more of a Ne-aux take on it, but perhaps helpful still...

    I sometimes have the problem of "just knowing" a current, but "hidden" reality & being unable to support it with anything concrete. Because I see something happening that's not obvious to others, I can guess the next step in the pattern.

    I think it's a bunch of semi-unconsciously perceived stuff being fit together in the background of my head until at once I get a whole realization. This happens for me concerning people's motives a lot. I don't consciously note body language or analyze a comment they make, etc. But one day, one small thing can trigger all this seemingly unrelated stuff to come together & give me an overview of "what's really going on".

    I've gotten better at straining my brain to recall details to support my conclusion. I'll chalk this up to better Si with age. But once I do that, the details can fade out again. You know that movie Eternal Sunshine? I think Jim Carry's character is Si-dom. My mind is kind of like his as the memories are being erased, and then he's just left with this hunch that something is/was/could be. It's more like I have the hunch, then as I try to bring back the details, they sort of erase out after confirming my hunch. I'll sometimes be left with a few of the strongest details which support my hunch, which I then probably remember in an exaggerated manner. Again, I think this is an inferior use of Si.

    Sometimes, I try and write stuff down as I recall it. This sounds like paranoia, now, as I type it... Let me assure you I don't record daily details in case I need to prove something later. I mean, in retrospect, I may journal some thoughts on why I feel a certain way, and whatever details I manage to pull up from memory or some other source will be listed & sorted there. On some occasions, this has actually tempered my view as once "facts" are listed & sorted, my hunches & feelings may seem less valid. I sometimes can't see the trees for the forest, then, and this can ground me so I'm better able to realize the trees are bushes & it's not a forest after all, but a thicket.

    Because I am able to recall details, even if with difficulty, I've realized stuff DOES strike me in the moment, but unlike a Si type, I often don't seek to immediately connect details to anything & slowly build impressions. Instead it just kind of gets tossed into a murky pot where hunches brew, and later on, you don't know exactly went into the sauce. Dissecting it is like guessing the ingredients by final product when you have no recipe.

    Sometimes I talk to another person, which in the case of Ne, helps me plot my own jumping between all those contexts so I can see how I connected the details, but consciously this time. I kind of relive my original realization in bringing the other person to the same one. It helps if they've experienced many of the concrete details I did, because then they support my foggy memory & I know I'm not paranoid.

    I've had a lot of useful conversations with my ISFJ mom about stuff like this. Sometimes I get told I'm paranoid, sometimes I'm vindicated later as supporting details or even my full conclusion finally emerge as visible to others, and other times I successfully get people connect it all as I do and become aware of a reality I see.

    It's also not unusual for someone else's observation to provide the "trigger" that causes me to finally realize a big picture. I think this is because their perception of something concrete is a needed support to the hunch that's been shaping up somewhere in my head, because I can push hunches down/dismiss them since I struggle to support them factually.

    So carrying around a Sensor buddy in your pocket might help. Give them a notepad, and take some mental pictures yourself.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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    I "just know" stuff all of the time, typically about people, and so do ESFJ friends of mine. This is not necessarily an NF trait, I don't know in what context you "just know" but if you mean in the sense of women's intuition, like knowing a guy is probably a rapist or that someone is going to flake on you, go with that feeling, you don't have to tell other people.

    I know numerous, numerous women, especially, who just get bad feelings about people, based on body language, tone inflection, eye contact, any number of things; this may be connected to our sharper attention to body language, due to child care. I remember having to watch a film in high school about how women have sharper reads on people's facial expressions and feelings due to the need to interpret the needs of babies and small children.

    THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS BEING AN MBTI N!!!

    However, if you "just know" entire theories about something, that probably is an NF matter.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelsees View Post
    How can an "I just know" person learn to find the reasons they "just know"? How can s/he find facts that most types seem to dig?
    And how can I learn to articulate my gut feelings? It's so hard to find words to describe what I'm feeling sometimes. At times, I make up words, but most people don't like those either.

    Also, sometimes I KNOW something is going to happen a certain way and it's not ideal. Lately, I've just been holding my tongue...and is that right? To know something bad is going to happen and not to warn others? To save myself from being poo-poo'd?
    As an Ni-dom I have these perceptions routinely. I don't so much try to figure out where they come from, as use aux Te to cross-check them with the external world. Then I can offer others supporting evidence as to why what I am saying is reasonable.

    As I have become older, I have learned to trust these impressions without Te vetting when necessary. As Fidelia wrote, if it just involves you, go ahead and follow them; sometimes there isn't time to do the cross-checking. When they involve others, you can weigh the benefits of speaking up vs. keeping quiet. Is shielding yourself from the doubt or ridicule of others worth risking what might happen if you don't share your insights?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i think the experience is more about Feeling vs Thinking than N vs S. N vs S just pulls from different resources to perceive the situation with (because it utilizes different methods).

    feeling is difficult to pin down. rather than seeing the particular cause of something, we see the reverberation of consequences as a huge, interwoven whole (qualitatively, across a huge range of factors that are not simply isolatable and definable-->those often imposing a pseudo-objective, impersonal, biased value structure into any process of evaluation or explanation). this is the difficulty of being values based rather than precisely rule-based. there's not a strict order of operations. it's not as linear. it's not as defined.

    i find the process of responding to and digging out evidence (T tested, established factors) tiring. sometimes changing the way you ask questions to help yourself focus and create more narrowed parameters can help. other times just respecting the fact that you might need more processing time is important. especially with other people, and being upfront and clear about what you need to participate in a productive dialogue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i think the experience is more about Feeling vs Thinking than N vs S. N vs S just pulls from different resources to perceive the situation with (because it utilizes different methods).

    feeling is difficult to pin down. rather than seeing the particular cause of something, we see the reverberation of consequences as a huge, interwoven whole (qualitatively, across a huge range of factors that are not simply isolatable and definable-->those often imposing a pseudo-objective, impersonal, biased value structure into any process of evaluation or explanation). this is the difficulty of being values based rather than precisely rule-based. there's not a strict order of operations. it's not as linear. it's not as defined.

    i find the process of responding to and digging out evidence (T tested, established factors) tiring. sometimes changing the way you ask questions to help yourself focus and create more narrowed parameters can help. other times just respecting the fact that you might need more processing time is important. especially with other people, and being upfront and clear about what you need to participate in a productive dialogue.
    I agree that feeling types definitely have this experience the most, and it may be more trusted (and accurate) in Feeling dominant or a type that is not F-rejecting or N-rejecting.

    She also could be talking about Ni. A long, long time ago on this site, someone was talking about tertiary functions developing in the teens, and I said hey that's me! And the person was like "if you're ENFP then Ni isn't your tertiary." It was one of the first clues that Ni was my tertiary. It also would explain why on functions-style tests I early tested as INFJ (despite lack of Fe or Keirsey-esque J preferences) because of over-estimating my tertiary Ni.

    I described the Ni process as I experienced it one specific day, on another site, and an INTJ said "yes, that's it, that's exactly what Ni is." It had more to do with everything tying together into a singular vision, triggered by IDKWTF; also: cathartic experience, and personalized symbols helping me on my way through making decisions in life.

    "I just know" is more like a Feeling judgment, or it's related to "women's intuition" or what some people would call a psychic ability, which isn't the same thing as Jungian N.

    The OP didn't elaborate, so I still don't know if she's actually talking about Ni or having one of these "bad feelings" about a person or situation and being right on the money.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i think the experience is more about Feeling vs Thinking than N vs S. N vs S just pulls from different resources to perceive the situation with (because it utilizes different methods).
    I won't underestimate the role of feeling, but feeling/thinking are judgment functions, and what the OP described (and what most responses seem to be discussing) seems much more like a perception. Would it be accurate to see it as N evaluated by F?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Surely there are communicable reasons. I'd find it odd if not, as well.


    Do you have any examples?
    Sure. Different examples in different ways.

    It's a little difficult to explain things without saying what I do in my job. Okay, I'll try.
    Recently a co-worker spoke with a woman who was very upset because her ex-husband is trying to get custody of their child. To him, she appeared very articulate and intelligent and sane. However, someone pointed out to him that I know her and probably have some background information. There are three bits of information I have: 1. facts--public knowledge facts.
    2. things that I shouldn't share and 3. my "feelings" about the woman and her situation.
    My co-worker considered being an advocate for her. I had to strongly advise against it. Sure, I had some facts that I could give him, but mostly just a strong feeling that he should not support her.

    Then, at times, I feel that a particular project is going to fail. These are the worst. Because with people, others usually trust my gut feelings--usually. But knowing that a project is going to turn out poorly and being unable to say why is so frustrating when people are demanding proof or facts.

    Or someone's choice in a life direction...even if it's small.

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