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  1. #41
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee I actually don't feel angry at all. I wasn't trying to be right I just wanted to understand what you mean. I've never tested as anything but INFJ but I have often played with the notion of being INFP or a Te user.That's what sparked my interest in the thread to begin with. I'd love for someone to tell me I use Te . I think Te users are awesome. I'm sorry if i'm coming across as passive aggressive. It takes a lot more than that for me to get "butt hurt " So as long as there are no mama jokes or black jokes we're good

    But for example I think in conversation if an INFJ want's to know what types of movies someone they don't know too well likes. They might just say (in conversation) "you know I haven't been to a movie in forever. I think the last thing I saw was (insert movie title here) and it was ( insert what they thought about it)." Then the INFJ would wait for the other person to talk and say what the last movie they saw was and how they liked it. They would continue the conversation throwing the other person a little bait hoping they'll bite. They wouldn't bluntly say for example "What was the last movie you saw?" and if the answer was an action movie they wouldn't just come right out and say "why,do you like action movies?" It would be much more tactful or hidden use of Ti because of the Fe aux. is that NiSe or just Ne

    Do you care to support what your saying about Ne in conversation? Maybe I failed to explain myself clearly. I get that Ni takes in Se. In conversation I feel like Ni would make that abstract picture and examine it from many angles so they don't need to ask why. That's what I was getting at. The external stimuli would be the inflection of their voice hand gestures posture ect. Is this solely Ne or NiSe ? Or neither can you explain? It kinda seems like Ni Se can mimic Ne. How would you go about making that distinction?
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    @DJ Arendee I actually don't feel angry at all. I wasn't trying to be right I just wanted to understand what you mean. I've never tested as anything but INFJ but I have often played with the notion of being INFP or a Te user.That's what sparked my interest in the thread to begin with. I'd love for someone to tell me I use Te . I think Te users are awesome. I'm sorry if i'm coming across as passive aggressive. It takes a lot more than that for me to get "butt hurt " So as long as there are no mama jokes or black jokes we're good

    But for example I think in conversation if an INFJ want's to know what types of movies someone they don't know too well likes. They might just say (in conversation) "you know I haven't been to a movie in forever. I think the last thing I saw was (insert movie title here) and it was ( insert what they thought about it)." Then the INFJ would wait for the other person to talk and say what the last movie they saw was and how they liked it. They would continue the conversation throwing the other person a little bait hoping they'll bite. They wouldn't bluntly say for example "What was the last movie you saw?" and if the answer was an action movie they wouldn't just come right out and say "why,do you like action movies?" It would be much more tactful or hidden use of Ti because of the Fe aux. is that NiSe or just Ne

    Do you care to support what your saying about Ne in conversation? Maybe I failed to explain myself clearly. I get that Ni takes in Se. In conversation I feel like Ni would make that abstract picture and examine it from many angles so they don't need to ask why. That's what I was getting at. The external stimuli would be the inflection of their voice hand gestures posture ect. Is this solely Ne or NiSe ? Or neither can you explain? It kinda seems like Ni Se can mimic Ne. How would you go about making that distinction?
    You have no idea how much I'm biting my tongue right now around you.

    Ni Se can't mimic Ne.

    Learn the difference between the words objective and subjective.

    Ne = objective intuition... so in other words, intuitions that are right in front of you in the moment and cannot be questioned.
    Ni = subjective intuition... these are often the crazy mystical prophesies that make Ni doms such crazy people.
    Fe = objective feelings... you can objectively feel the emotions of others, but you don't have to sympathize or internalize those emotions if you don't want to.
    Fi = subjective feelings... these are emotions that are specific to the individual that no one else understands. Words like "character" "honor" "integrity." These mean different things to different people, and INFP's are all about discussing what those mean.

  3. #43
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    I think I was a little pissed off because you said, in a very roundabout way, that I'm full of shit.

    In socionics, you might be an INFj-Fi (as opposed to INFj-Ne). This might be why you keep testing as a judger, because your JUDGING FUNCTION is stronger than your perceiving function.

    It is very deeply set in my mind that you are an INFP but I can not logically convince you of this because your understanding of the functions is different from my own and I don't think you're willing to let that change, so there's really no point in debating me any further.

  4. #44
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    I'll finish with a quick explanation of the functions in my mind for you.

    INFP:
    Fi = Emotional Judgements based on character and personal values. Placing weight on other people because they meet certain moral standards that are subjectively your own.
    Ne = Seeing many possible solutions at any given moment then quickly forgetting them. Seeing that which is not readily apparent, and speaking in an indirect manner.
    Si = Subjective sensory data such as nostalgic memories brought on by momentos. Feeling strange tingling sensations in random parts of your body that no one else really feels. Understanding when you're hungry and what kind of food satiates exactly what your body needs at that moment.
    Te = Objective logic. Either its 100% true or its 100% false. Arguments are placed in the form of "I'm right, you're wrong." Facts are never justified, they are only given, because objective facts can not be argued, hence the word "objective."

    INFJ
    Ni = subjective intuition, Sees 1 life purpose far into the future. Often ponders the next step or what WILL OR SHOULD TAKE PLACE as opposed to what COULD take place. An INFP could ponder all the possibilities like, "oh, we can do this! we can do that! and this!" while an Ni user will say, "LETS DO THIS" or "LETS GO DO THAT!"
    Fe = objective emotion. You're standing in a room and every person is radiating various emotions, be they weak or strong. Some more powerful than others. Fe-Ni = the air is filled with an overall emotion that every person must conform to. An energy of a sort.
    Ti = Subjective logic, mostly theoretical until it yields predictable results and can eventually be assumed as grounded objective logic. This is logic that can be argued and debated. Compared to Te, Ti is analogical. Ti users are great at forming analogies. INFJ's are notorious for attempting to form analogies that are still not very good, haha.
    Se = Objective Sensing. Scans for information that is directly in front of you and readily apparent. Sees 1 goal at a time and doesn't stop until that goal is finished 1 prioritized objective. Has difficulty multitasking and might not return to whatever it started if you interrupt the initial effort. Enjoys "the thrill of the hunt." Feels greatly satisfied when a long struggle yields achievement. Speaks very directly and to the point.

    Difference in Se between INFP and INFJ when achieving goals:
    INFP's see many possibilities but cannot mentally organize the steps required to reach the goal.
    INFJ's see one life goal but feel in no rush to get there.

  5. #45
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee Not doing this to be a jerk just want to establish a base here. You accused me of not knowing subjective vs objective so I'll just define them. Again easily not trying to undermine you but I do understand what they mean and even if you still feel I didn't they're defined here so this is my base for the terms moving forward.
    ob·jec·tive [uhb-jek-tiv] Show IPA noun
    1.something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target: the objective of a military attack; the objective of a fund-raising drive.

    sub·jec·tive [suhb-jek-tiv] Show IPA adjective
    1.existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective ).

    "Se = Objective Sensing. Scans for information that is directly in front of you and readily apparent. Sees 1 goal, 1 prioritized objective. Enjoys "the thrill of the hunt." Feels
    greatly satisfied when a long struggle yields achievement." (your working definition)

    Se focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.( Not my personal spin. I want to be unbiased and it's consistent with the way you defined it. Going forward this is my working definition)

    "Ne = Seeing many possible solutions at any given moment then quickly forgetting them. Seeing that which is not readily apparent, and speaking in an indirect manner." (your working definition)

    Extraverted intuition (Ne)
    Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives and allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action. ( Again not my own personal definition but it is what I was defining it as and it is consistent with your definition. Moving forward this is my working definifion)


    Now that we have a base for understand the difference between subjective and objective " belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought" which is the point I brought up with Ti. It's subjective logic because facts are filtered according to the thinking subject and not the object of thought. Not facts for facts sake ect. (Just trying to show you my understanding of Subjective and objective here not trying to be a jerk)

    So what i'm asking you is:
    If in conversation Se is taking in objective external stimuli and Ni is also at work what would that look like? How do you measure the disparity between NiSe at work and Ne. If Ne is objectively intuiting external stimuli and Ni Se is subjectively intuiting external stimuli what does that look like? How does that manifest itself in conversation?

    I wasn't saying you were full of in a round about way. I'm just naturally skeptical of anything anyone else says so please don't think I mean to insult you in any way shape or form. If I made you feel that way I apologize. It was not my intent. You said you didn't want to continue the conversation further so if you don't want to respond that's fine. I respect that.I will accept your strong belief that I am an INFP. I won't dismiss it. I'll just use it as an excuse to continue to study MBTI. I will say I enjoyed the intelligent conversation and thank you for putting up with me for as long as you did. Again I'm really sorry if I pushed your buttons a bit.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  6. #46
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    I wasn't accusing you of lack of knowledge so much as I was commanding you to gain the knowledge... There's a difference... . One is emotional reactivity the other is instruction. Why does everyone overinterpret what I say!

    *throws table*

  7. #47
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    LOL.... but by suggesting I needed to gain knowledge you implied I didn't posses the knowledge to being with. In other words "I command you to learn this..... because you don't already know it" *evil laughter*
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    LOL.... but by suggesting I needed to gain knowledge you implied I didn't posses the knowledge to being with. In other words "I command you to learn this..... because you don't already know it" *evil laughter*
    Right but you have no reason to take lack of knowledge personally.

  9. #49
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee, Do i strike you as a T type a all? *crosses fingers*. I've always tested high on T. In our conversation did you observe a strong T at all or is it a clear INFP to you?

    I didn't take it personally I just felt you were mistaken. In other words I didn't think you were calling me stupid or anything but I wanted to make sure you knew I understood it already so the instruction was not needed and we could continue our discussion. No harm no foul didn't take it that way at all. We're all good here on my end =D
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  10. #50
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    I see Ne for sure. That's it.

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