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  1. #11
    Senior Member IceBlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Just think about it in terms of cognitive functions.....it just doesn't work: she's Fe followed by Ni, you are the opposite: Fi second and Ne first. I don't know....sounds feisty, but not lasty...( i mean, i don't think it's a good sign that you are feeling like this after only 2 months, just to be honest.....)
    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    God that sounds like a nightmare
    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I agree with @pinkgraffiti here. I think it's a bad sign that you're fighting so much this early on in the relationship. Life it too short to spend that much time arguing with your significant other. Yeah, you can both buckle down and learn to argue more constructively, but the bottom line is that in your respective natural states there is a lot about the other that causes friction. This is a bad, bad, bad sign. It shouldn't be so hard so soon. (And, maybe it shouldn't be so hard ever.)

    I know there will be people on this site who are going to disagree with me and poo poo me for being typist for what I'm about to say. Nonetheless, I've gotta say that I think the idea of an ENFP and an ENFJ dating is a pretty bad one. Yes, any two types can fall in love. Yes, any two mature people with good people skills can make things work... But jeezie creezie, there are so many inherent obstacles to an ENFP and ENFJ communicating in a seamless fashion. Ni versus Ne. Fi versus Fe. Ti versus Te. I think it's these differences that make it too hard.

    Just remember that you could find someone else that you click with (in that NF on NF way you and your ENFJ click) where there aren't so many communication obstacles, i.e., where you don't fight all the time. (Or maybe you could find an INTJ with that whole same Fi/Te thing going on. That's a pretty good match for an ENFP.)

    Or forget everything I've just said about type, @IceBlock. Remember that regardless of type, you shouldn't settle for a relationship with so much discord.
    I recognize that, in MBTI's view our relationship is not good, and I understand why. Actually, I have no idea how I ended up in a relationship with an ENFJ, because I've always had problems with them, and normally got annoyed with their controlling and manipulative nature. I'm starting to see that this relationship might be a waste of time, even though how good our times together are. On the other hand, we recently are getting more understandable of others needs and it's more intense than ever. The fights have become more rare now, so I'm waiting to see where it's all going. Plus, the process of breaking up is SO ABSURDLY TIRING, UNCONFORTABLE, DISCOURAGING for me that it's more likely to give indirect reasons for she breaking up than that attitude coming from me. Nevertheless, I'm happy with her, and I'm in love also, so I don't feel like putting an end is the right answer yet.

  2. #12
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Not trying to discourage you. It's your life.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #13
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    Let's just say "fuck MBTI" for a second.

    It sounds like her standards are absolutely fucked and she's setting herself up for failure.

    She loves her some control. The whole "Pygmalion project" thing is a definite form of control. Her ultimatum-threats are an assertion of control.

    You deserve to be able to dictate some of the terms of the relationship that you're both present in--in this case, by sticking up for yourself and perhaps taking her up on her ultimatum-offers. Chances are that she's bluffing and doesn't even recognize it.

    She'll relinquish part of that control if an ultimatum doesn't go the way she expects. She'll either adjust her standards (e.g. she'll stop being so clueless), by adjusting her situation (e.g. distancing herself), or adjusting her ultimatum ("oh, no; I didn't really mean that..").

    In any of those cases, it seems that you're better off.

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It sounds like her standards are absolutely fucked and she's setting herself up for failure.

    She loves her some control. [...] Chances are that she's bluffing and doesn't even recognize it.

    She'll relinquish part of that control if an ultimatum doesn't go the way she expects. She'll either adjust her standards (e.g. she'll stop being so clueless), by adjusting her situation (e.g. distancing herself), or adjusting her ultimatum ("oh, no; I didn't really mean that..").

    In any of those cases, it seems that you're better off.
    I just read your response to me, @IceBlock, and I completely agree with what bologna has said here. I didn't want to jump too quickly on the bad-type-match bandwagon, because this isn't about type matching, but about individual health. It seems that she has a rather skewed view of what a relationship should be, and how she should be treated. I think bologna is right that she's probably bluffing and not realizing it - I myself did that at the beginning of my boyfriend and I's relationship when I felt threatened and scared, and I didn't even realize what I was doing until he called my bluff and said we should break up, and I burst into tears (at which point he said he didn't really want to either, but he had to know if I was really sold on it or not). I agree that you should stick up for yourself and take her up on an ultimatum. You will both find out whether she really means it and whether continuing the relationship is viable.

  5. #15
    Senior Member IceBlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Let's just say "fuck MBTI" for a second.

    It sounds like her standards are absolutely fucked and she's setting herself up for failure.

    She loves her some control. Her ultimatum-threats are an assertion of control.

    You deserve to be able to dictate some of the terms of the relationship that you're both present in--in this case, by sticking up for yourself and perhaps taking her up on her ultimatum-offers. Chances are that she's bluffing and doesn't even recognize it.

    She'll relinquish part of that control if an ultimatum doesn't go the way she expects. She'll either adjust her standards (e.g. she'll stop being so clueless), by adjusting her situation (e.g. distancing herself), or adjusting her ultimatum ("oh, no; I didn't really mean that..").

    In any of those cases, it seems that you're better off.
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I just read your response to me, @IceBlock, and I completely agree with what bologna has said here. I didn't want to jump too quickly on the bad-type-match bandwagon, because this isn't about type matching, but about individual health. It seems that she has a rather skewed view of what a relationship should be, and how she should be treated. I think bologna is right that she's probably bluffing and not realizing it - I myself did that at the beginning of my boyfriend and I's relationship when I felt threatened and scared, and I didn't even realize what I was doing until he called my bluff and said we should break up, and I burst into tears (at which point he said he didn't really want to either, but he had to know if I was really sold on it or not). I agree that you should stick up for yourself and take her up on an ultimatum. You will both find out whether she really means it and whether continuing the relationship is viable.
    I think that you had a twisted and wrong impression about her. I don't think she have a skewed view of a relationship, but DO have a very concrete and clear vision of what she wants her boyfriend to be like. Also, I do impose some of the terms in this relationship, but it's not like I have this need to lead stuff, you know? Imposing total power and taking the lead is very consuming for me, and since she is so willing to do that, I leave most on her hands, and, when I feel I should interfere, I do.

    Anyway, so these ultimatum threatenings might be bluffs, right? I had imagined this possibility, but I always succumb to her drama EVEN THOUGH I'M AWARE IT'S ALL SET-UP TO MAKE ME AGREE WITH HER I think I gotta try this out, though...

    In the end, you two are telling me that I should react in a way that she doesn't expect, even if that mean that I should threat a break-up?

  6. #16
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceBlock View Post
    I think that you had a twisted and wrong impression about her. I don't think she have a skewed view of a relationship, but DO have a very concrete and clear vision of what she wants her boyfriend to be like. Also, I do impose some of the terms in this relationship, but it's not like I have this need to lead stuff, you know? Imposing total power and taking the lead is very consuming for me, and since she is so willing to do that, I leave most on her hands, and, when I feel I should interfere, I do.
    Well, I do apologize if we read it wrong. I know that you love her and would prefer to have a good relationship if possible. Just, being an ENFP myself, I know that I can tend to let the other person take over so much that I lose my own identity in the interest of becoming who they want, and that eventually can backfire very badly. It's just a little concerning if she's expecting you to do all the meeting her needs, but not being as willing to adapt to yours.

    Anyway, so these ultimatum threatenings might be bluffs, right? I had imagined this possibility, but I always succumb to her drama EVEN THOUGH I'M AWARE IT'S ALL SET-UP TO MAKE ME AGREE WITH HER I think I gotta try this out, though...

    In the end, you two are telling me that I should react in a way that she doesn't expect, even if that mean that I should threat a break-up?
    Yes, because what she's essentially doing right now is threatening you into doing what she wants. If you know that she sets the whole thing up to make you agree, then it's not a fair argument, and she needs to go into discussion with you on fair terms. The whole point of a bluff is that the other person is betting that you won't call them out on it. It's a power play hinging on you not challenging their power.

    I think the main point here is that for a relationship to work, you have to be equals. It's normal for one person to be more dominant and one person to be more submissive, but the more dominant person also has the responsibility of ensuring that they use their dominance to benefit the more submissive person, not to control them.

  7. #17
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    ^ Welp, all of that.

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