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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    With NJs, how Ni works is that it always (well, usually) knows the answer. Brainstorming is an immediate, internalized, automatic process with flash conclusions -- thus the NJ does not want to search through any more answers and just wants to get down to business.
    What I find frustrating about Ni is the difficulty in explaining how you know something.

  2. #22
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    Agreed. When I try to explain myself, I either don't have words to explain it or spend 20 minutes sounding like a damn fool as I bridge the parts together to form the words. Just get back to me tomorrow and I'll explain myself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sych0 View Post
    I can really only build things up if I'm with my Ne friends. I'm good with the major building blocks of ideas (hat) but bad with the branching details (napolean??).
    thats exactly what i want to do, i always found that big idea building ability Ne's have very elegant and interesting

    a question to NPs about this, can u do this with any type? (idea building) or just a limited few ?

  4. #24
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    If you ask my personal opinion I'd prefer Ni over Ne any day. Simply because I hate being indecisive and having to consider all the options, and even after having chosen a path, still second guessing myself and wondering if I picked the correct route.

    Anyway to a certain extent brainstorming works, I'd guess. Although don't you feel weird, like you're doing something strange? I feel that way when I try to use Ni.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Spirilis' concept of Ni reminds me of "code grids" where, let's say, you have a whole SHEET of words that don't make any sense if you look at the whole cluster of data... but you own a decoding sheet with little windows cut randomly in it, and when you put the decoder sheet over the page of data and move the top sheet around / turn it, eventually you get a "best fit" solution where the words of the secret message finally appear in the slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
    a question to NPs about this, can u do this with any type? (idea building) or just a limited few ?
    Can you explain better what you're asking? I'm still not quite sure...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
    thats exactly what i want to do, i always found that big idea building ability Ne's have very elegant and interesting

    a question to NPs about this, can u do this with any type? (idea building) or just a limited few ?
    If you mean "can we do this with any idea?" then the answer is "the hard part is STOPPING!"

    I went through Jennifer's list of branching ideas and immediately could tell how she could have made each and every jump. Think of us as walking Wikipedias, constantly linking from this entry to that then back to edit something else based on new data... we're dangerously organized in our heads, though we could never tell you how or why that internal organization came about. Every link of thought can be traced back to the thought before, easily traced and logically consistent, though with no forethought put in.

    - cat in the hat - big tall hat, easily spotted
    - cowboy - see big funny hat on his head
    - hair covering - a purpose for which the hat exists
    - splat - let's just say it's a noise we'd prefer to have land on said object
    - three-letter words - obvious
    - silly - c'mon. Silly hats are awesome!
    - clothes
    - Napolean - talk about a silly hat! Him and George Washington with their weird hats... connection? I think so!

    (cue Scrubs-esque imagination moment where Napoleon and Washington are long-lost brothers destined to fight one last never-ending battle for dominance. I see a movie with Arnold Schwarzenneger and Danny DeVito starring!)
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  7. #27
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    So one way to practise Ne = get on the train of thought, and ride it for all it's worth?

    I use quite a lot of Ne but tend to use it in a very facetious sense (to entertain people or when sparring with NTPs). When it comes to serious matters my Ne looks pretty pathetic. It is, however, very useful for balancing out Ni, which is probably why I don't relate to NJ decisiveness much.

    Serious Ne-use is a very active process for me - there is a small time delay between the subject arising and my switching it on.

    My thoughts about a Hat
    - cat
    - splat (I would interpret Jennifer's splat as using the rhyme rather than bird poo)
    - red and white
    - bowler hat
    - invisible man
    - pipe
    - this is not a pipe
    - comics - Scott McCloud
    - glasses

    And another concurrent train of thought;
    - dapper!
    - cat pantaloons
    - pajama cats


    Hmm, perhaps Ne can be developed simply by reading Dr Seuss books before bed time...


    Oh and concurrent -> currants! Currents, currency, current sea, if you were conned by a currant, that wouldn't be a grape thing.

  8. #28
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Dude! I've been trying to get my Ne to work for years! It's tough! I'm extremely decisive to the point of being dry in conversations. Then I don't feel like talking cuz "I'm boring". My version of "riding the train" of though "for all it's worth" is Ni having Se write a essay about whatever I'm talking to the person about, examples and all. No interruptions, plz!

    I really hate when I buy something and then I find out it's not perfect and I feel as though Ni failed me. "How could I have not seen it before?" Not only that but I have a low tolerance for gathering details or even perceiving the current situation. Why do that when I can think of the optimal way of doing something and try to do that and be dismayed when it fails due to real-world conditions.

    Still, rant aside, I'd love to be able to just bs with the boys and not think much of it and just let my mind run wild. It doesn't help that my NP friends are very supportive of my NJness. They like the idea of having someone decisive around to keep them on track as long as I'm not too bossy! :P

    The end!

  9. #29
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    Weird.

    When I was a child I used this function constantly, up until sometime around 6th grade, when I started rapidly distilling these lists to the most likely or most useful. I still like to brainstorm, but have difficulty turning off the auto-whittling.

    That said, I'm also very good at identifying workable options, then ordering them from best-case to worst-case, and methods to implement each contingency (so you know how much rework is required for each).

    Back when I worked with my mentor, the INTP-INTJ working relationship worked roughly like that: He'd come up with numerous possible solutions and present all the options, including very far-fetched ones, then I'd pick the best ones, order them from most-optimal to least-optimal, reject some, and explain why. It took a while, but eventually he solidly trusted my ability to select the best options and groups of related options that were best for fallback contingency routes. I was better at seeing the eventual effects of choices, while he was better at seeing choices.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  10. #30
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes.

    And NOW imagine being Ne-primary... like your ENTP or ENFP...
    ...and you get an idea of why they have focus issues.
    (At least Jim Carrey gets PAID for doing it.)

    I empathize with them. I clean up mentally after myself all the time, but they're often just ping-ponging around.
    I love ping-ponging...It's my favorite hobby!
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

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