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[NF] Question for NFs.

nightning

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If we refer to it as just 'N' we are left without the NF/NT demarcation. How can you call humor dry?

You want to separate everything huh? Very well... We have "N" for depth/search for meaning... Ni is depth reflected inwards, search for intrinsic meaning within an object, Ne is "depth" directed outwards, search for patterns relating other ideas to an object. Then we throw in F vs T... Those define the area of focus. F is more relational, with people interaction being the heavier focus. T is systematic and objective, more concern with abstract ideas (refering to NT). Then you get interaction of N with F or T... NiFe, finding meaning within an object/relationship and seeking to alter the external environment towards a truer representation (people focused). NiTe, finding meaning/building a system within self and again seeking to alter the external environment closer towards the imagined system (task focused). NeFi, finding patterns relating subject to other ideas, using these patterns to find ways of achieving harmony. NeTi, finding patterns within ideas, then using these connections to build a more complex system.

I've used way too many generalizations above though... *shrugs* Whatever!

Dry humor... come on! Surely you know what that is... Dry as your dead-panned "jokes". As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think I can beat you on this one.
 

SolitaryWalker

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You want to separate everything huh? Very well... We have "N" for depth/search for meaning... Ni is depth reflected inwards, search for intrinsic meaning within an object, Ne is "depth" directed outwards, search for patterns relating other ideas to an object. Then we throw in F vs T... Those define the area of focus. F is more relational, with people interaction being the heavier focus. T is systematic and objective, more concern with abstract ideas (refering to NT). Then you get interaction of N with F or T... NiFe, finding meaning within an object/relationship and seeking to alter the external environment towards a truer representation (people focused). NiTe, finding meaning/building a system within self and again seeking to alter the external environment closer towards the imagined system (task focused). NeFi, finding patterns relating subject to other ideas, using these patterns to find ways of achieving harmony. NeTi, finding patterns within ideas, then using these connections to build a more complex system.

I've used way too many generalizations above though... *shrugs* Whatever!

Dry humor... come on! Surely you know what that is... Dry as your dead-panned "jokes". As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think I can beat you on this one.


I am saying that we can analyze each function as an atomic unit, not that they can be taken out of the system as a whole. There couldnt be dry humor if we rely on the vernacular definitions of those two words. A sympathetic reading of what you said would be that there was no humor at all.
 

nightning

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I am saying that we can analyze each function as an atomic unit, not that they can be taken out of the system as a whole.

It's not taken out of the system! If you just want to compare T vs F and N vs S that's fine... but when you go around saying NT seems to be different from ST and NF different from SF... obviously you need to consider 2 functions together... otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.
 

SolitaryWalker

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It's not taken out of the system! If you just want to compare T vs F and N vs S that's fine... but when you go around saying NT seems to be different from ST and NF different from SF... obviously you need to consider 2 functions together... otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.


I never said that this was not the case....we even need to consider a third variable... the synthesis of N and F... this amorphous notion that the theme of NFness could be toned down to.
 

nightning

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I never said that this was not the case....we even need to consider a third variable... the synthesis of N and F... this amorphous notion that the theme of NFness could be toned down to.

Why do you need to throw in the "amorphous" third variable? You already have one or rather two! Ni vs Ne, Fi vs Fe, Ti vs Te...
 

SolitaryWalker

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Why do you need to throw in the "amorphous" third variable? You already have one or rather two! Ni vs Ne, Fi vs Fe, Ti vs Te...

The question was whether or not we can tone down NF to 1 term. It is either this or that we still need 2. Visionary and Compassionate. We could say that these are the two roots, or that they stem from this amorphous entity that I've invoked.
 

nightning

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The question was whether or not we can tone down NF to 1 term. It is either this or that we still need 2. Visionary and Compassionate. We could say that these are the two roots, or that they stem from this amorphous entity that I've invoked.

I want to scream no... compare INFJ to ENFP... or compare INTP to ENTJ are the two similar? They seem to be almost polar opposite despite being in the same group...
 

SolitaryWalker

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I want to scream no... compare INFJ to ENFP... or compare INTP to ENTJ are the two similar? They seem to be almost polar opposite despite being in the same group...

We are talking about the quintissence of the 4 temperaments at this point, nothing else.
 

nightning

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We are talking about the quintissence of the 4 temperaments at this point, nothing else.

Probably too late into the night for my mind to be functioning... If you just want four simple terms to describe the temperaments... you can go look them up.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Probably too late into the night for my mind to be functioning... If you just want four simple terms to describe the temperaments... you can go look them up.

I am not looking for answers, I am looking for intellectual stimuli and those that Keirsey gave leave us with plenty more work to do.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Yes... so...?

I am looking for isolated statements because if you say 1 isolated word, it can invoke many ideas at the same time, and you can say many words that are connected and still invoke less ideas than just this one.
 

wyrdsister

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I am looking for isolated statements because if you say 1 isolated word, it can invoke many ideas at the same time, and you can say many words that are connected and still invoke less ideas than just this one.

Oh dear Lord not one world in the English language or thought is in isolation.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Oh dear Lord not one world in the English language or thought is in isolation.

Ok how about this.

Compassionate and sensitive are within one network of ideas, and there are more ideas that are also in this network. Visionary and innovation are in another network.

If I say visionary, I invoke innovation. If I say Compassionate, I invoke sensitivity.

Hence I can say compassionate, sensitive, emotionally astute, accomodating and still only touch basis with one root. And then I could use less words and just say compassionate and visionary and touch basis with two roots and invoke more ideas.
 

Littlelostnf

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Ok how about this.

Compassionate and sensitive are within one network of ideas, and there are more ideas that are also in this network. Visionary and innovation are in another network.

If I say visionary, I invoke innovation. If I say Compassionate, I invoke sensitivity.

Hence I can say compassionate, sensitive, emotionally astute, accomodating and still only touch basis with one root. And then I could use less words and just say compassionate and visionary and touch basis with two roots and invoke more ideas.


Can't we all just get along?
This thread...which could have been poetic has been ruined by my
word...Quixotic :(
So I'm taking it back and nobody can play with it anymore.

Thanks for defending my word and word choice Eileen, I agree that eventually we could connect all words in some way to each other...and in the end..isn't that an NF's job...connecting. :hug:

So mommy and daddy please don't fight..please don't get a divorce. I'll be good. I'm taking the word back.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Can't we all just get along?
This thread...which could have been poetic has been ruined by my
word...Quixotic :(
So I'm taking it back and nobody can play with it anymore.

Thanks for defending my word and word choice Eileen, I agree that eventually we could connect all words in some way to each other...and in the end..isn't that an NF's job...connecting. :hug:

So mommy and daddy please don't fight..please don't get a divorce. I'll be good. I'm taking the word back.

There never was a 'fight'... this was supposed to be nothing more than a thought experiment....
 

Eileen

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Drat that was MY attempt at being funny ;)

We didn't fight (yes, I got your joke; thank goodness SW is not my babydaddy, however) over "quixotic" though I was/am personally feeling annoyed about the aim of the thread and SW's responses to answers to his question. He seems to have a very precise aim for what answers he wants, but that aim has only somewhat become clear as he has responded in the thread, rather than being clear from the start. As a learner, I find that very frustrating. Though this is obviously not school, it's a good reminder for how I should design exercises.

[And I STILL don't know what the problem was with "quixotic" if "visionary" is now not an appropriate response; see, it's all arbitrary according to SW.]

If we were together, there's a fun way to do this sort of activity, though. We'd all have a post-it pad, and SW would say, "What adjectives describe a quintessential NF?" And we'd write down all the adjectives that we could come up with, and then we'd compile our post-its together. We'd have a lot of words that were the same, or that could fit in the same category. We'd go to the task of sorting words into concept piles, and then when we had distinct piles, we would find a word with which to classify those piles. So, for example, we might have "quixotic," "idealistic," "big-picture," "visionary," and "speculative," which could go together in one category (perhaps "VISIONARY" but perhaps not). This is called "affinity diagramming" and it is great fun.
 
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