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  1. #41
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    If we are talking about any given NF, we've got two things to work with: Feeling and Intuition. We can't specifically talk about Ni or Fi or Ne or Fe, because that would not apply to any given NF. We can't talk about introversion, extraversion, judgment, or perception. So I think either you need to come up with five unique words, or you need to stop being so irritatingly picky.

    I am not talking about people. I am talking about typology. What I have in mind is the subconcious tendencies that can induce one to think in a quixotic fashion. In this case we can talk about each function seperately.

    The point is that there is a much higher correlation between F and quixotic element than with N. Again, this has nothing to do with people, just unconscious tendencies. Though if we do translate this into how type manifests itself in personalities, for instance if we look at a quintissential NT, and then at a quintissential NF, we will see that both of them are highly iNtuitive yet one is significantly more quixotic than the other.

    1)Compassionate
    2)Visionary

    and I insist on compassionate being 1 and visionary 2 because the NF puts primacy on feeling over Intuition. We admire our exceptional NFs for having a great heart and our exceptional NTs for having a great head, in a way N is not an entity in itself but like a turbo boost to the Judging faculty (T/F).


    That is really all that I could come up with. Only two roots instead of 5. One of the F and the other of the NF. Little to do with either J or P because neither is clearly a property of the form of 'NF'.

    Whatever else I could say next would have to follow from one of these two roots, so they wouldnt be isolated statements.

    Same as with the NTs

    1)Analytical
    2)Visionary

    We could come up with more characteristic to associate this type with, but they would necessarily stem from one of those two roots.

    I could not solve my own riddle either on the path of the NTs or NFs.

  2. #42
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I am not talking about people. I am talking about typology. What I have in mind is the subconcious tendencies that can induce one to think in a quixotic fashion. In this case we can talk about each function seperately.

    The point is that there is a much higher correlation between F and quixotic element than with N. Again, this has nothing to do with people, just unconscious tendencies. Though if we do translate this into how type manifests itself in personalities, for instance if we look at a quintissential NT, and then at a quintissential NF, we will see that both of them are highly iNtuitive yet one is significantly more quixotic than the other.
    This quest seems so . . . quixotic.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #43
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Even visionary and compassionate can eventually have the same root. It's pretty arbitrary based on what you think, so I propose that if terms are different enough (like "quixotic" and "empathetic," which are AWFULLY similar to "visionary" and "compassionate" without even being picky), they're acceptable as isolated words. The problem with language is that it's full of webs of related meaning, and we can classify and categorize all day long until nothing is unique or meaningful anymore.

    Anyway, here's my go:

    visionary, perceptive, ethical, emotional, _______.

    Visionary - deals with intuition on the broad level, understanding possibilities
    Perceptive - deals with intuition on the specific level, picking up on invisibilities
    Ethical - deals with rational decision making framework for NFs; can be applied by NFs without emotional expression, even if it is derivative of emotion
    Emotional - deals with the inner world (well, and the outer world) which is separate from ethics because it is irrational; may lead to ethics eventually but is a visceral quality
    ________ - ?

  4. #44
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Even visionary and compassionate can eventually have the same root. It's pretty arbitrary based on what you think, so I propose that if terms are different enough (like "quixotic" and "empathetic," which are AWFULLY similar to "visionary" and "compassionate" without even being picky), they're acceptable as isolated words. The problem with language is that it's full of webs of related meaning, and we can classify and categorize all day long until nothing is unique or meaningful anymore.

    Anyway, here's my go:

    visionary, perceptive, ethical, emotional, _______.

    Visionary - deals with intuition on the broad level, understanding possibilities
    Perceptive - deals with intuition on the specific level, picking up on invisibilities
    Ethical - deals with rational decision making framework for NFs
    Emotional - deals with the inner world (well, and the outer world) which is separate from ethics because it is irrational; may lead to ethics eventually but is a visceral quality
    ________ - ?
    Than we would have to be more specific about what we understand for visionary and compassionate to be. Visionary in a sense--a big picture thinker, and compassionate in a vernacular sense of the word.

    NFs tend to be more compassionate than SFs, and NTs tend to be more analytical than STs. So we could say the root of NF compassion/visionary is a third, rather amorphous entity that brings out the best out of both N and F. This would be the same entity that brings out the best of the N and the T for NTs.

    So, yet I will agree that this could be reduced to just one root. We shouldnt call it'visionary' because then we wouldnt be able to draw the distinction from the NTs, so it is best off being called an amorphous entity.

    And also, I dont think that ideas depend on language for their existence, we think in ideas and then translate them into words, not the other way around, so it is a problem with finding the words that best depict what we were thinking.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Call it idealistic then.

  6. #46
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Call it idealistic then.
    Then, once again, we are running into the problem of drawing the distinction from NTs. It is the entity that brings out the best of N and the Judging faculty. I dont think that we need a name for it and if there isnt a fitting word for that in the English language we should not hesitate to make one up.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Then stop inventing impossible tasks.

  8. #48
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Then stop inventing impossible tasks.


    The purpose of intellectual tasks is not to reach this or that end but to just get you thinking, hopefully you will find solace in that? Ever read Camus's Myth of Sysiphus or the Plague?

  9. #49
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Bah, I guess we all will just have to accept that you lack a sense of humor entirely and try to appreciate what you have to offer, which is irritating (if useful) tasks that even you can't do.

  10. #50
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Bah, I guess we all will just have to accept that you lack a sense of humor entirely and try to appreciate what you have to offer, which is irritating (if useful) tasks that even you can't do.
    I lack a sense of humor? You must not have been reading my posts recently. The whole persona of SolitaryWalker was tragi-farcical in nature and more so was this thread, that you called a 'task'.

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