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  1. #21
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    sounds like you do doorslam, but dont want to admit it
    I slam concrete blocks. Does that count? I break them with my hands then use them for stepping stones. Seriously, I posted that because I read so much about "door slamming" and I thought...."Who on earth does all this door slamming? I mean couldn't it get expensive after awhile, what with all of the window panes cracking and so forth? Why would anybody want to destroy property due to an emotional moment?"

    See, years ago, I did throw a cup of coffee and broke it, because I was so overwhelmed and stressed with financial woes and I lived with an ISTJ who constantly fretted over said woes. So one day I threw a cup of coffee at him because I just wanted to make the noise stop for a little while, but then I was out a perfectly good mug and had to scrub all of that coffee off my white wall....I thought, "How stupid of me" and I began to think of emotions like a horse. You can either put a bridle in the horse's mouth and train it to go in the direction you want it to go or you can let the horse run wild, buck you off, trample you and drag you through the mud. Emotions are to serve us, not the other way around. They are our tools, our gifts, not our masters. So, no door slamming for me [I did that once shortly before I threw the coffee mug], no more throwing things for me. We are endowed with a wisdom mind and an emotional mind. A wisdom mind can still operate with compassion and empathy, BUT it doesn't have to wallow in self-pity and it has the capacity to balance emotion with logic. It makes for a happier person, at least I think so. So, I'm just saying, being an INFJ doesn't mean you slam doors. I think that no matter what type we are, we must remember that there is both a healthy and an unhealthy state of being for any type and we should be careful not to pigeon-hole and stereo-type based on what we think. I love your saying by the way, "Where wisdom reigns, htere is no conflict between thinking and feeling." Jung. I totally agree and I guess that's what I 'm really saying. INFJ does not always equal doorslams. It can, but it doesn't have to.

    Well, enough rambling from me. Let's hear what someone else has to say!

  2. #22
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    EJCC

    There's also a problem some times when one lists their concerns and the other simply does not care at all and they're entirely unapologetic about it. They don't know how to reciprocate at all and it seems like they just see you as some kind of dog to kick around for their amusement.

    When this happens too much one tends to become gun shy about it and also maybe learns to detect when some relationships are going one sided. It's not a friendship or relationship when you're trying to deal with something and the other party just spits on you like you were nothing to them to begin with.
    In which case, you either start a serious/honest debate with them to see if they'll change their ways with some nudging, or you push them out of your life without verbally bitchslapping them*. Right?

    I guess I just don't understand where the doorslamming instinct comes from, when it's so clearly counterproductive and hurtful. It seems like the process goes from being too accommodating to being too hurtful/harsh and spiteful, and I don't know why you wouldn't take the middle ground to avoid doorslamming altogether -- especially when FJs are so Fe-savvy and would likely know exactly where that middle ground lies, instinctively.

    (This isn't to say that I'm really great about handling those situations, either, FYI. I just want to know what the rationale is for that pattern of behavior -- because there must be one, if it's so damn common with FJs.)

    *e.g. just not contacting them anymore, treating them like a distant friend instead of a close one, and maybe sending them an email or something saying "I think we shouldn't be such close friends anymore, because of this behavior, that I had very serious and blunt and unsubtle conversations with you about before, meaning: it should come as no surprise to you that this was coming/inevitable, and that this is for the best, for both of us."
    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Ah.
    I think that's messed up. I would never do that. I'd rather drive someone away by confrontation. And if someone did that to me I'd be highly upset.
    Yeah, I've had more than one FJ do that to me: an ENFJ (very recently, who called me a terrible friend and "not a socially functioning human being"), and a probable INFJ (the summer before my freshman year of high school). It really, really sucked, both times. They really know where to zero in on you, to make it hurt as badly as possible. Almost sadistic.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  3. #23
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    Well to me doorslamming is a little different than hitting the tactical nuke button. Though some times both will happen.

    Doorslamming can be a sudden break but it's not always directly spiteful - it's just when I've had completely enough and being any kind of diplomatic is just an invitation for them to play on sympathies and repeat the process over again, intentional or not.

    The nuke is when you blow up their shit and then shut the door.

  4. #24
    The Iron Giant
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    I'm with @Starry and @Lexicon. I understood the doorslam to be sudden and unexpected to the other party. I think in particular enneagram type nines may be prone to this, particularly at lower levels. The conflict avoidance thing seems to push them to build up pressure inside, largely hidden from the other party. When it is expressed, it's dramatically understated. When the nine finally hits the boiling point, it's an explosion and a permanent break. When you're close to a nine, it's very important to be able to recognize when they're holding back so you can encourage them to vent that steam that's building up. They're so afraid of their own anger.

  5. #25
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Doorslamming can be a sudden break but it's not always directly spiteful - it's just when I've had completely enough and being any kind of diplomatic is just an invitation for them to play on sympathies and repeat the process over again, intentional or not.
    I don't know how else to ask this, but: Why would you let them play on your sympathies? Wouldn't it be possible for you to be forceful without giving in to them? To be diplomatic without being a doormat?
    The nuke is when you blow up their shit and then shut the door.
    ^ This is at the heart of it, and this is what I just don't get. Like I asked in my previous post: Why? What's the point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    I'm with @Starry and @Lexicon. I understood the doorslam to be sudden and unexpected to the other party. I think in particular enneagram type nines may be prone to this, particularly at lower levels. The conflict avoidance thing seems to push them to build up pressure inside, largely hidden from the other party. When it is expressed, it's dramatically understated. When the nine finally hits the boiling point, it's an explosion and a permanent break. When you're close to a nine, it's very important to be able to recognize when they're holding back so you can encourage them to vent that steam that's building up. They're so afraid of their own anger.
    Is this something that more self-aware Nines can learn to work through? i.e. by being more assertive, in order to avoid having to doorslam anyone?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  6. #26
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Is this something that more self-aware Nines can learn to work through? i.e. by being more assertive, in order to avoid having to doorslam anyone?
    So far, so good. Yes, I think so. Conflict may never feel good for a nine, though. I think over time, being aware that this defense mechanism (the stockpiling of angry feelings) will likely only bring about exactly that which they fear (because nines fear separation) can make them more comfortable with holding their nose and diving into conflict when necessary.

    That whole dynamic though, where the defense mechanism developed to cover for a core fear makes that fear a reality, is common to all types.

  7. #27
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I don't know how else to ask this, but: Why would you let them play on your sympathies? Wouldn't it be possible for you to be forceful without giving in to them? To be diplomatic without being a doormat?
    Because I'm actually really forgiving and kind of need a defense mechanism to defend myself. If I actually care about the person but they aren't reciprocating, I end up feeling like the jerk.

    I'll start having doubts and I might be getting ready to tell them that I don't want things to continue this way but 9 times out of 10 it turns into an apology from my end because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

    It's a fault I suppose.

    ^ This is at the heart of it, and this is what I just don't get. Like I asked in my previous post: Why? What's the point?
    It's a defense mechanism. It's almost like in one of those movie scenes when somebody needs to go away for their own good or a higher purpose but they are so attached the only way to break it is to hurt their feelings so they will give it up.

  8. #28
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I don't know if everyone uses this definition, but I had thought that what makes doorslamming different from any other, similar outburst, is that it is perceived, by the person being doorslammed, as coming completely from out of nowhere. Response: equal parts emotional pain and "What the hell?!"

    The types who doorslam the worst are the ones who let their resentment build up for a very long time, for the sake of maintaining harmony, and then, when the inevitable straw breaks their back, air all of their grievances at once, and don't give the other person a chance to try to make peace, or even resolve whatever problems pissed off the doorslammer in the first place. FJs are WAY more likely to do that, than any other type, because they're usually so conflict-avoidant that they won't want to bring up those problem topics unless they're angry enough to think that doorslamming is the best solution. Other types -- especially Thinkers, I would argue -- would not be afraid to list their concerns early on, because they're generally not as afraid of conflict, and therefore they wouldn't get the chance to build up enough resentment to lead to a doorslam, NEARLY as often as an FJ would.

    (Side note: I get no satisfaction from doorslamming because I dislike burning bridges; I'd rather let the bridge fall into disrepair, and then fix it up later if I feel like it's worthwhile.)
    It's rare that I've "doorslammed" but after someone has hurt/annoyed/irriated me so many times, something they say/do does break me--and it's immediate. They're done. They no longer exist to me. BUT, it's not only that I want to maintain harmony or hate confrontation (I do, but...), it's that I tend to make excuses for people's bad behavior (they're going through a hard time, they are having another bad day, their upbringing was unloving and harsh, their dog died, I just need to love them more/be kinder to, etc.). Then something happens--that final straw--and I'm done. Complete doorslam isn't always possible when that other person HAS to be in your life for some reason or another.
    I have one example when I did go back and apologize and try to explain why I "shut the door" on them. After I came to terms with my share of the wrongness in the situation. Nevermind--I'm still embarrassed to give details...
    But, like I said earlier, it's rare that I shut people out.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I think that no matter what type we are, we must remember that there is both a healthy and an unhealthy state of being for any type and we should be careful not to pigeon-hole and stereo-type based on what we think. I love your saying by the way, "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling." Jung.
    bingo! that's pretty much it - the largest assortments destructive/unhealthy type tendencies can be traced to the repression mechanisms (feelings denying thoughts or vise verse, abstracts denying details or vise verse).

    specifically for the doorslam:


    but just like with any unhealthy behavior, it can be outgrown. INFJs healthy enough to overcome this repression internally, don't need to do it externally.

    p.s
    regarding the Jung quote - thank you for my new signature

  10. #30
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I guess I just don't understand where the doorslamming instinct comes from, when it's so clearly counterproductive and hurtful. It seems like the process goes from being too accommodating to being too hurtful/harsh and spiteful, and I don't know why you wouldn't take the middle ground to avoid doorslamming altogether -- especially when FJs are so Fe-savvy and would likely know exactly where that middle ground lies, instinctively.
    Yeah, so it would seem.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    *e.g. just not contacting them anymore, treating them like a distant friend instead of a close one, and maybe sending them an email or something saying "I think we shouldn't be such close friends anymore, because of this behavior, that I had very serious and blunt and unsubtle conversations with you about before, meaning: it should come as no surprise to you that this was coming/inevitable, and that this is for the best, for both of us."
    The person I recently ended contact with should have seen it coming. I tried over and over to talk about things, but she absolutely refused to see that she had any contribution to the problem or to try to change in any way. So I just told her everything I was angry about and why, and said I was done with her. So kind of half a doorslam. And throughout the whole thing she was acting like she was the one doorslamming me. But I know it was worse for her, because she's alienated everyone around her and it should be obvious to her that everything I said was true and she has serious problems.

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