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  1. #31
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    I don't trust my sense of direction and time very much (always with a watch, often with a map), but I am learning quite a few routes. I also orient myself by landmarks/stores, which means that, when the ownership changes, I'm pretty much boned.

    What's really weird is, sometimes I won't even realize when the street crossing the one I'm in is another street I've been in before from another angle.
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  2. #32
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Interesting. I never thought of it as being a cultural thing. I kind of use the NSEW and left, right interchangeably. I think I use left/right when giving directions around the city, especially to someone not familiar with the city as NSEW will probably just confuse them. I tend to give NSEW directions when someone is travelling longer distances and will likely consult a map for part of the trip anyway. I'm from the midwestern part of the United States.
    The only time I would use cardinal directions would be when getting on State Highway 1, which is the main North/South highway in my country. Even then if I can use some other way to orient people I would - like saying, "heading towards Auckland". I realise this actually takes longer to say and if people don't know the cities and towns in the area it might confuse them, but I just don't tend to think in terms of NSEW when giving directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read that what often are portrayed as male/female differences are really T/F differences. I wonder if these studies controlled for that?
    It could be correlated with T/F, yes.

    But then I am a (female) Feeler and I identify with the (male) Thinking approach. Then again, I may just be an exception.

    I'm not sure about studies. It would be interesting to research.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Interesting! Having traveled a fair amount outside the U.S., it totally makes sense that the cardinal directions wouldn't be nearly as applicable/helpful in giving directions to others, or even in ones' own sense of navigation. All of those windy alleys, very un-grid-like.

    I can see how that plays a part in my own way of orienting and getting the lay of the land, here in the U.S, as N/S/E/W 'works' for me. That said, I don't think it's highly universal in the u.s. either, since I think a lot of people (even many in this thread) don't use it.
    Oh, I don't think it's universal but it is an interesting tendency. I wonder if it is used less in places in the US where there's a lack of a grid pattern or more named (as opposed to numbered) streets - like in older/unplanned cities or in hilly places.

    For me, I really think it's just my taking a more 'zoomed-out' view of things. Getting a general idea of a city layout, such that if I have the general idea (know where various suburbs are, know one's to the north of another, know the main road arteries and how they connect, and so on), then I can 'find' my way to an interstate or such, even having never been there before. It's come in handy before... I remember years ago driving through San Francisco and my having missed an exit, or something.... I suspect 1-way-streets were in play ( at 1-ways, they can really f*ck with things)... but I don't know... I just kinda 'felt' my way back to where I thought the interstate entrance would be. Can't explain this....
    This sounds a lot like me.

    Edit: For me, part of all of it may also have to do with my affinity with nature/outdoors, hiking, etc, thus not only orienting myself directionally (via sunlight), but also having a sense of time based on sun and cumulative experience of time/distance, having hiked hundreds and hundreds of miles by this point.
    Another slightly OT point: Have you been to the Southern Hemisphere? When I first arrived in the Northern Hemisphere I found I got lost more often and had more trouble connecting the map with what I was seeing in front of me. My theory is that it's down to the fact that the sun appears to come from the opposite direction. It seems like it's shining from the South, rather than the North, like I'm used to. This had an unconscious affect on my perception of the surroundings; in a way it flipped my intuitive sense of direction. Things that should be in the East seemed, intuitively, to be in the West and vice-versa. After being there a while it seemed to come right, but it was very disorienting at first.

    Come to think of it, an American friend of mine, who usually has pretty good sense of direction, complained about getting confused when she got here. Perhaps she was having the same problem.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #33
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Another slightly OT point: Have you been to the Southern Hemisphere? When I first arrived in the Northern Hemisphere I found I got lost more often and had more trouble connecting the map with what I was seeing in front of me. My theory is that it's down to the fact that the sun appears to come from the opposite direction. It seems like it's shining from the South, rather than the North, like I'm used to. This had an unconscious affect on my perception of the surroundings; in a way it flipped my intuitive sense of direction. Things that should be in the East seemed, intuitively, to be in the West and vice-versa. After being there a while it seemed to come right, but it was very disorienting at first.

    Come to think of it, an American friend of mine, who usually has pretty good sense of direction, complained about getting confused when she got here. Perhaps she was having the same problem.
    Hmm....I've been to New Zealand, and I'm not recalling experiencing this. It may be that I did, but I'm not remembering it, but suffice it to say that if it happened, it wasn't momentous enough for me to remember. [the only noteworthy thing in NZ related to navigation was my having a heck of a time finding the rental car place in Wellington, because the map was poor and so I went back and forth along a causeway a couple of times, due to a lack of exit ramps. Also, the only ticket I've ever gotten in my life was on the south island. The locals there do not care for tourists in rental cars and like to report people.]

    Otherwise I've only been to Ecuador and Peru, south of the equator, but that's a different experience since you're so close to the equator there.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #34
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Hmm....I've been to New Zealand, and I'm not recalling experiencing this. It may be that I did, but I'm not remembering it, but suffice it to say that if it happened, it wasn't momentous enough for me to remember. [the only noteworthy thing in NZ related to navigation was my having a heck of a time finding the rental car place in Wellington, because the map was poor and so I went back and forth along a causeway a couple of times, due to a lack of exit ramps.
    Hmm, it was more of a problem on foot than while driving for me. Actually, I should say, it was when I was in Jerusalem. The Old City is a total maze anyway: the streets are narrow, they all look much the same, the names aren't well marked and few go in a straight line. On top of that, all the main through-ways (if you'd call them that) have tourist traffic jams. It took a while to get the hang of even for someone who is good at navigating.

    But that wasn't the real problem for me. I had trouble actually grasping where East Jerusalem and West Jerusalem were, even when I was standing on a look out point. Frankly there isn't anywhere in the world where this difference is more obvious and meaningful, so only an idiot couldn't understand it. But it just couldn't connect what I was seeing with the map. The map just seemed wrong. It was so strange because this never happens to me.

    When you were describing your problems driving in San Francisco, I was actually thinking of my experiences of driving around in circles in Wellington. It's hilly, crammed up against a harbour, and has some irritating one way streets.

    Also, the only ticket I've ever gotten in my life was on the south island. The locals there do not care for tourists in rental cars and like to report people.
    A speeding or parking ticket? What made you think they didn't like tourists in rental cars?

    Anyway I should probably stop derailing...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #35
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I think it was speeding, combined w/ my 'endangering' the other car while passing. In any event, it's something that doesn't happen in the u.s., really - people calling the cops on another car, and automatically taking the word of the person who called in. Obviously cops never even viewed the situation / no accident occurred, but they still gave me a $75 ticket based on the guys' complaint. I was going to get a ticket regardless, iow, just because the guy called me in. When I went into a local gvt office to pay the ticket, prior to my leaving the country, they told me that in and around that region (Te Anau), the locals could be sticklers and it wasn't uncommon for tourists to get tickets based on called-in complaints.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #36
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't know if this is a me thing, an INFJ thing, or a Ni related thing, or just health related brain fog but I find that I often have difficulty with all of these things and have since I was a little kid.

    I used to watch those spy movies and marvel at the hero being told detailed instructions once and remembering everything. It's not that I can't remember details. It just seems like certain details are really difficult for me. People related details are much easier to deal with than something more surroundings/time related.

    For example, I can look at my time table and think I know what day of the school cycle it is and when my prep and my bus duty are and what the date is. Then I'll realize part way through the day that I have it wrong. I also will be aware it's a certain day or time, but somehow in the space of an hour or part of a day, get mixed up about it.

    When I was a kid, I had difficulty knowing where I should be when and being in the right spot at the right time. It wasn't even getting absorbed in what I was doing. It was somehow that the directions just were foggy in my own head. Having it in writing helps, but I seem to need a combination of both.

    I don't have a strong sense of direction, even though I am extremely good with maps. If you ask me what I saw on my drive to school, I would often have a hard time telling you. When I was a kid, I was always walking in the wrong place, or not aware of cars coming up behind me in parking lots and me blocking their way. I assume this has to do with being Se inferior and also with being absorbed in other thoughts, but I'm not sure.

    I think back over events of a month's time and while certain details are easily recallable, anything to do with specific times and dates and what happened right then are hazier. I'm surprised at people who are easily able to recall the specific date of their last few periods, even though mine is pretty regular and predictable. Maybe it's just that it isn't terrible important, or that I'm not concerned about pregnancy/fertility right now, but the best I could come up with is a general part of the month.

    I'm just wondering if this is me specific or part of a larger trend and if so, how other people work around it and help themselves out.
    I relate to all of this. In fact one of my greatest fears is being flagged down by a motorist who then uses me for directions.

    I have lived in the same town for 24 years and I still do not know even 1/4 of the street names or locations.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  7. #37
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    That's really interesting! I was wondering about some of this myself.

    I have the same problem with time, like I'll believe two conflicting things at once. I'll know it's Thursday, and if you ask me what classes I have on Thursday and what times they meet I can obviously tell you, but somehow I might get it in my head that my next class is at the time it was Wednesday or Friday. I confuse things I see in my head with reality. I remember random details but rarely times and dates unless I can trace the facts somehow in the way they are related and put the pieces together.

    I've been accused of lacking spacial awareness (as it relates to me). I bump into things and knock things over, even though I'm a graceful and coordinated person when I'm paying attention. I also am usually unaware of being in people's way, but I'm always aware of things in my environment which could be dangerous (so opposite of you I guess).

    I'm actually very observant and great with both maps and directions. If I've been somewhere and been the one driving I can place myself on the map in my head and feel where I am and always find my way back and there again. I could visually recall almost all of the drive like a video tape playing in my mind, along with what music I was listening to some of the time (more often the music will remind me of where I was the last time I heard it). Verbal directions are difficult sometimes though, because I'll see about 5 different interpretations when most people will see 2, and lack the common sense to be able to figure out what people mean because at least two would seem equally plausible (and the incorrect one might make more sense to me because I have my own reasoning).

    I don't know what the directions thing relates to; my ISTP friend and INFP cousin both could get lost in Walmart. And their functions are opposite.

    Also another weird thing: I have trouble telling what direction sounds are coming from. Anyone else have this problem? I feel kind of bad when I'm driving and hear a fire truck and don't know where it is, so I don't know if or when I should stop.

  8. #38
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    greenfairy - you did a perfect job of describing exactly what it is I'm dealing with! Itg's nice to know that I'm not alone!

  9. #39
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    If I listen to something in a trance, I have one hundred percent recall. It's as though I can play it all back, with all the details, like a movie.

    However if I am not allowed to work in a trance, I resent it, and fail to learn much at all.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If I listen to something in a trance, I have one hundred percent recall. It's as though I can play it all back, with all the details, like a movie.

    However if I am not allowed to work in a trance, I resent it, and fail to learn much at all.
    Why do you say you want everyone to be in a trance?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

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