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  1. #51
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Hell no. Fp types absolutely hate socialism because it limits their freedoms.
    very untrue. I don't feel that capitalism gives me any freedoms that socialism would take away. at least not any that I care about.

  2. #52
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    I dunno, I'm pretty pissed off.

  3. #53
    WALMART
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    That's an NFJ problem? I'd think it to be a feeler problem in general, though perhaps NFJ's are a hair on the idealistic side.

  4. #54
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    both of the confirmed INFJs i had in my life where libertarians, my buddy a declared one, my exwife was independent but whose most opinions highly correlate with a somewhat nationalist take on libertarianism.
    my ESFJ uncle believes in dynamic union socialism, a.k.a. "work hard, provide for your family, unionize with your fellow men and protect your brothers in time of need", though many versions of libertarianism in adherence to freedom also recognize that people should have the freedom to unionize, so i've never seen it as a contradiction in terms. this BTW is very common with socialists of his generation.

    on the other end:
    my INTJ father - while being a capitalist himself - highly believed in a balance of socialism and capitalism.
    my ENTJ grandmother was a full fledged communist (fought in the Russian revolution).
    my ISTJ grandfather - also a large capital owner in south africa on his own right - was constantly giving to charity and believing the government isn't doing enough for the poor.

    simply put, the OP pattern does not follow through into my own life.

  5. #55
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    I lean more towards capitalism... socialism and the concept of "doing things for the greater good" has never really appealed to me as an individual.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Ok so I've noticed that so many NFJ types are socialists and don't really understand the concept of capitalism. It seems like if it were up to the NFJ types we would all be making the same amount of money and everything would be free. Why is it that so many NFJ's constantly think of people that want to get as much money as possible for themselves as "selfish"? What's up with that? I'm assuming it's the Fe?
    Who you pissin off, bro?
    Dirt Farmer

  7. #57
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Why is it that so many NFJ's constantly think of people that want to get as much money as possible for themselves as "selfish"? What's up with that? I'm assuming it's the Fe?
    IIRC: Should rephrase it to be NFPs. FJs trend towards social conservatism as well, FWIW. (E)NFP are the dominant traits associated with economic liberalism.


    Also, you should revisit your ideological bent;

    Ok so I've noticed that so many NFJ types are socialists and don't really understand the concept of capitalism.
    This is a false dismissal; you dismiss another opinion by essentially stating "they just don't understand".

    It seems like if it were up to the NFJ types we would all be making the same amount of money and everything would be free.
    That sounds... pretty wonderful. Maybe one day we'll achieve it.

    Why is it that so many NFJ's constantly think of people that want to get as much money as possible for themselves as "selfish"?
    This is a strawman, set up to reinforce the righteousness of your own ideology.

  8. #58
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Ok so I've noticed that so many NFJ types are socialists and don't really understand the concept of capitalism. It seems like if it were up to the NFJ types we would all be making the same amount of money and everything would be free. Why is it that so many NFJ's constantly think of people that want to get as much money as possible for themselves as "selfish"? What's up with that? I'm assuming it's the Fe?
    yes and no. I think at a societal level, the trend you are picking up on is true...I think you can "type" the society perhaps. A society composed mostly of Fe/Ti would evolve towards something akin to socialism. A society composed of mostly Te/Fi would evolve towards something resembling free trade/capitalism. Because Te/Fi and Fe/Ti have different modes of communication, social hierarchical structuring, social domination and modes of individual contribution, they would naturally evolve into an economic model that is supportive.

    It is all about how each member of the collective makes contributions to those around them....in an Fe landscape it is a series of favors and returned favors and giving, even to the undeserving, as who knows when you will be in their shoes. The inherent unspoken is that no matter how hard any individual works, life is a random gamble, and your destiny is shaped to a great extent by the collective so one must always feel sympathy for others as you could easily be in their shoes in the random walk of life. (ie each time the tribe goes hunting, not all hunters make a kill. When they return the deer must be shared as evenly as possible...to hoard your kill for later would be both wasteful (as it rots) and selfish*)

    In a Te landscape, each individual makes commitments contractually-obligations are measures of goods, dollars, hours, time, concrete things that seem so cold and impersonal, but as each individual makes their decisions, and enters into exchange with others, results in overall benefit to the community....support is provided for the community by strengthening the rule of law, so that all clearly understand the implications of each transaction and all have access to resources that few would have had access to before. Only the poorest f the poor-those unable to work for themselves-are provided for. The rest need to pushed into work as each person must put forth effort and make thier contribution into society if we are to survive as a whole**. (ie each farmer works his own fields and his return is proportional to his effort he puts in. Hoarding his grain is not only not evil, but is actually wisdom as it will feed his family over the months to come and provide seed for the coming year.)

    * thus the mantra of "rich people are so selfish for not sharing what they have with others"
    **this is why supporting the nonworking but healthy poor is almost repugnant to the conservative mode of thought. It is actually detrimental to the long term good of our entire society to do so.

    Nowdays though, we arent farmers and we arent hunters. thus neither system of worldview is actually correct anymore.... our society has evolved past our biological cognitive constructs. Both sides sense this, and combined with the how individualistic americans are, discarding the yoke of Je, it breeds a frantic tension and scramble to try and put in place what one intuitively "KNOWS" to be right and common sense. Each side is really fighting its own shadow side, but projects it onto the other.

    (I thought I was bonkers when I first observed this^^trend, but Thomas Sowell wrote an entire book about it...Ayn Rand saw it too, and you can see it in many conservative or liberal opinion pieces, and some in early socialist authors as well.....each side makes the worst assumptions about the others as they cannot fathom how different their worldview is or how anyone could be justified in having such a messed up understanding of the world. The mutual misunderstanding is both comical and sad.)

    On an individual level, this does not hold true as we spend our lives being influenced by those around us, thus about half the INFJs I know in Texas are capitalistic and quite anti-socialistic.

  9. #59
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I'm an FP and lean socialist - you're very off-base about all FPs hating it. The problem with capitalism is that it doesn't have much impetus for regulation of human quality of life. For one, there are few protections against those being born in the low classes staying in the low classes. Capitalism doesn't -prohibit- the "dream" of rising beyond class, but the chances are very unlikely because capitalism doesn't have any consistent infrastructure for giving the lower classes a leg up. NFs tend to focus on broadscale qualititative measures, so quality of life as impacted by socioeconomic structure is a major concern for us.

  10. #60
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    No political ideology will be completely coherent or logical. Even the best will become outmoded as time progresses. Adherents of a particular ideology tend to see in it what they want to see shaping it to their personal views anyway. Political philosophy is possibly the lowest form of philosophy. Yet half the people out there seem to think they're political philosophers and/or geniuses, often warmly embracing a political ideology which they think suits them best. Trying to match political preferences based on personality type is about like trying to match political preferences based on what color a person's eyes are. This personality type/political preference thing is like a playground for sweeping generalizations. It's hard to think of anything in which personal anecdotes would be less relevant. Only scholars using extensive data and doing painstaking research could even begin to address an issue such as this one. Also, it would have to be based on a multi-disciplinary approach to have any chance at success. Nevertheless, if someone wants a topic for a Ph.D. dissertation, a topic trying to relate a person's political views to his personality type might be a good one. I seriously doubt if anyone has thought of that, and even if they have, I'm sure there is much more work that could be done.

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