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  1. #151
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    I am still waiting to hear how to ceaselessly string along an ENFP...

  2. #152
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Why? It's just some kid that gets an erection every time the wind blows.
    To be fair, the wind is pretty sexy.

  3. #153
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Actually ubee is just sexy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubee0173 View Post
    my married-ness and location (not to mention the magic 8 ball) would have to disagree...
    And??
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  4. #154
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yeah...i have a problem with people trying to insinuate that to be "charming" is to be fake and/or manipulative. we actually are friendly and engaging with people because we are genuinely excited to meet them and talk with them. it's not bs...it's not an act...it's honest and people respond to it because it feels good to have someone genuinely enjoy your company...why would someone wish to paint that so negatively?
    I have experienced the same issues with ENFPs.

    I know that they are trying to be friendly by connecting to various types of people, though it seems to me that they have a habit of asking "friendly" questions just for the sake of having a conversation instead of having a "genuine" talk.

    One case in point is, I've known many ENFPs often ask questions evenif they already know the answers from others. Another example is that if something is kept as a secret, or being told in confidence, they would 'purposely' pretend that they don't know any of it and try to dig out more infos from others just for the 'sake' of conversation!

    But what I can't stand the most is that they can talk so sweetly and friendly to those people even if they already have developed a strong hatred against them (being bottled up for the sake of popularity). That's something I consider to be incredibly flakey and I wouldn't do it personally (no matter how much INFJs are into peace-keeping).

    Though I must say that ENFPs have their own charms and I think I finally get it when they often defended themselves that they're not acting or stealing attention by being chatty with everyone all the time. Cuz that's exactly how Lady X and my ENFP friend has worded.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm often amazed by their high level of enthusiasm with people and their charms!

  5. #155
    Senior Member HotpinkHeatwave's Avatar
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    Crescent Flesh, you're stereotyping. You must be basing all that on personal experience.. Because I don't do ANY of that. ESPECIALLY the 'bottling it up' thing. Fuck that. If I don't like someone/a group of people, I won't be nice to them so I can be liked as well. I could care less.

  6. #156
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    LOL

    If you manage to you get a pulitzer prize!

  7. #157
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    @ crescent fresh --

    i think you do see some accuracies in behavior, but you misunderstand our motivation and intentions. now, perhaps what you said is true in the cases you have seen, but i can think of a whole lot of other reasons that i would behave in a similar way but with completely, totally different intentions.

    i like your name btw

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I have experienced the same issues with ENFPs.

    I know that they are trying to be friendly by connecting to various types of people, though it seems to me that they have a habit of asking "friendly" questions just for the sake of having a conversation instead of having a "genuine" talk.

    One case in point is, I've known many ENFPs often ask questions even if they already know the answers from others.
    well, to start out with, is that really deceptive, or inauthentic? or is it just being private?

    honestly, sometimes i don't really know how to start and/or continue a conversation, so i'll ask about something that i know will be a good touch-off point. we don't possess your Fe social ease, unfortunately. it's not that i'm not genuine, it's that i'm just not conversationally brilliant, and you have to start on some kind of mutual ground. what i ask about might not be what i'm interested in, but it's a launching point into deeper conversation.

    secondly, understand that we tend to be very curious and often find out things we aren't supposed to know, or that we really don't want to get into how we found out. people tend to randomly open up around us - i mean this completely seriously, recently this woman i just met - like 2 days ago - at work started telling me things about her husband she apparently hadn't voiced to anyone in years - and so sometimes it's a bit of an awkward situation, and asking just makes things easier. if i met her husband i would never be up front about what she told me, though i might ask to see what his side of the story was, too.

    Another example is that if something is kept as a secret, or being told in confidence, they would 'purposely' pretend that they don't know any of it and try to dig out more infos from others just for the 'sake' of conversation!
    i don't feel any obligation to tell people everything i know, do you? i don't say this with any malice. i just don't see it as my responsibility to have to tell someone something if i think it's going to make things more awkward between us. and i do like to know things. i like being aware.

    also sometimes i forget details. okay so a lot of times i forget details. and because i don't know the exact info, i don't want to risk saying anything and getting it wrong or getting anyone else in trouble, which tends to happen when discussing secrets.

    but again, how do you know that this is precluding genuine talk? because honestly i couldn't give a rat's ass about conversation with most people. i like learning ideas and talking about ideas and being with people, but i can't say i've ever really cared enough about conversation to prolong it, unless i really stood to gain from it. i'd be way more likely to fake a sore throat to not have to talk to you than to bother pressing conversation if i'm not interested in you as a person.

    and yes, sometimes i do talk with people for the sake of getting information i need to know. i find it hard to believe that as Ni dom you do not do the same thing. still, the feelings i express and the interest i express are always genuine. compassion happens naturally, i don't need to pretend.

    But what I can't stand the most is that they can talk so sweetly and friendly to those people even if they already have developed a strong hatred against them (being bottled up for the sake of popularity). That's something I consider to be incredibly flakey and I wouldn't do it personally (no matter how much INFJs are into peace-keeping).
    same question, are you really sure it's for the sake of popularity?

    there are some people that really piss me off, but i can see that there will be no longterm good in confronting them, unless they're doing something really unethical. i know a girl that is self-absorbed and talks at 120 miles a minute, and i can't stand her. but why would i be mean to her? i think that she is a good person, because i believe that all people are good in some ways, but i really don't like to be around her. so when i have to talk to her, i try to focus on the places where i empathize with her. and i do genuinely like some things about her. i can say this for almost all people i dislike. and i have to work with her, so what's the point in being cold to her? it would just make her feel bad and make our work situation awkward.

    i'd say the flipside of this is NFJs being cold to people, which i have seen often in action. is that really a kinder thing to do? to be standoffish? do you think it really helps anyone change or understand what you don't like about them? because, ime, it doesn't. people just wonder why you dislike them so much. might as well just be nice and enjoy as much of their personality as you possibly can.

    which, don't get me wrong, i love NFJs. i've dated them and like to keep them around as friends.

    but i think you misunderstand our intentions. lazy, disorganized, forgetful, curious, secretive, yes. but intentionally deceptive and inauthentic for the sake of our own gain? i doubt it. being inauthentic is always loss to Fi.

  8. #158
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    i just caught wind of this thread. i am strapping on my battle cloths. prepare thyself, OP.

    ENFPs!
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  9. #159
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotpinkHeatwave View Post
    Crescent Flesh, you're stereotyping. You must be basing all that on personal experience.. Because I don't do ANY of that. ESPECIALLY the 'bottling it up' thing. Fuck that. If I don't like someone/a group of people, I won't be nice to them so I can be liked as well. I could care less.
    for real... me either and i totally respect privacy. i hate when people break my trust in them by being too lose with privileged information. i wouldn't do that to anyone else.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #160
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ps does anyone else hate the word "flakey"? i feel like it's such an easy way out. call someone flakey and you don't have to bother trying to understand them, because they're just totally two-faced. and they can't win in your eyes - if they do something right they're just being manipulative, and if they do something wrong, they're unreliable.

    but

    here are some things i am:
    • indecisive
    • a procrastinator
    • in favor of being generally liked
    • forgetful in regards to minor factual detail
    • running 3 minutes late about 20% of the time
    • somewhat impulsive
    • anxious


    here are some things i am not:
    • insincere
    • untrustworthy (note that you NEED to tell me when i am supposed to keep something confidential, i do not discuss other people's opinions as a general rule but sometimes if related things come up in conversation i might mention something you said because i think it's smart/interesting/relevant unless i know it is private)
    • premeditatively manipulative (my style of manipulation - and let's face it, everyone manipulates - is more like skirting my way out of getting in trouble)
    • backstabbing
    • unreliable
    • without integrity


    on the other hand, i feel like i have seemed a little flakey to a friend of mine lately. the problem is, we have really different tastes, and she always wants me to do stuff i really don't like. she'll ask if i want to hang out on thursday, and i'll say sure, give me a call thursday morning, and she'll call me at 7 pm when i'm having dinner with my family or SO. or we'll make plans to "go out" on the weekend, and she'll call 30 minutes before she wants to leave (but i live 25 minutes from downtown) and then she'll inform me that if we don't leave soon, she can't go, because she wants to be home by 10. i don't even usually leave the house by 10 on the weekends. or she'll want to go get fast food, but i'm trying hard to eat healthy. and i always have to drive because she is a terrifyingly bad driver and never has gas. and the last time we went out, she pretended to be drunk after some fruity little thing that wouldn't even get a toddler drunk and yelled at random guys on the street from my car. and then she complains about me - me not keeping plans if i agree to do things with her, or me not hanging out with her if i don't agree to do things with her, or me not enjoying myself if i do things with her! so if that's flakey for you, then yes, i suppose i am a flake...

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