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[NF] INFPs, what do INFJs do that drives you nuts?

PeaceBaby

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PART 3:

It's kind of like a search party made up of people that loosely fall into two groups ... the first group believes the best way to find the lost person is to use a map and figure out where to go based on the last known location. The second group believes that the best way to find the lost person is by trying to put themselves in the shoes of the lost person and guess what they might do. Ne-aux grabs the map and Fe-aux protests it was rude to do that. Fi-dom says, "I need to see where we need to go, there's new terrain I've yet to explore" and Ni-dom says, "I've already narrowed it down so let's go where I've decided you need to go." Fi-Ne says, "You don't have a right to pre-select, the lost person could be ANYWHERE!" and Ni-Fe says, "You need to follow the protocol of chain of command here, mister." We . get . stuck.

If an INFP wants to engage an INFJ, this protocol has the potential to positively start the process and helps to ensure communication can ensue. The process has to start somewhere, and since Fe-aux puts up the first protest, the Fi-Ne person is in the best position to help communications reach the next level.

Assuming the INFP can use the list above, at this point, we look to the INFJ:

INFP's - the factors we need to connect with someone and share are:

1.) Compassion: A demonstration of compassion towards the emotions we are trying to process. (Why are you hurting, your hurting matters to me.)

2.) Acceptance and Tolerance: An attempt to accommodate that fact that emotions and logic may be intermingled, especially in emotional moments. (This has been difficult for you, how can I help? Asking questions to clarify emotion.)

3.) Suspension of Judgement: An effort to listen without placing information within the larger context; the suspension of offering solutions. (The suspension of judgement shows you believe I can figure this out.)

4.) Open-mindedness: Believing that although the path appears obscure, we will get to our destination. (We can get there together; I can help remind you of our goal. We are ok.)

This hopefully leads to mutual trust. And this trust can be the fundament I believe of some excellent discussions together. Most importantly, we can't jump immediately to our aux to problem-solve, or we end up in the stuck place again. When Fi-Ne hears their "alarm bells" we need to stop and ask ourselves, "Am I presenting too many options, mixed messages, emotions mixed with data?" Fi-Ne can then state out loud what is venting vs what is not to help reduce "white noise". When Ni-Fe hears their "alarm bells", it's important to declare out loud that the "alarm bells" are ringing, and that you are overwhelmed with mixed messages and need time to process. Ask for clarification. Ask if this is venting or theorizing, or if there's an agenda or goal. Ask for time-out.

Now, the hinge point: The Ti tert and the Si tert can also be tripping points. This part, I need to work on further, further than I can suss out of my heart and brain tonight. But suffice it to say, we need to be able to tolerate from each other, respectively and to a certain degree, Si's need for copious amounts of data and Ti's need to nit-pick into the details and nitty-gritty of interaction.

This IS a work in progress. Add, subtract, pick apart. It might be the start of some sort of explanation of why INFJ's and INFP's have trouble interacting in a mutually desirable way? I mean, we WANT to, each of us, yet it hits these bumps in the road that I believe might be navigable.

PART 4 to follow .....
 

Fidelia

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Hmm, I like the way you've reduced it down, PB. You are bang on on the Part 2 points (at least for me personally). It is also helpful to have the Part 3 INFP points laid out succinctly like that. I will need to do some more thinking, but just wanted to say that on first reading, this is good stuff! Thanks for taking time to think it out. I'll be interested to see what you've got to say about tert functions.
 

Southern Kross

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I had a feeling when I posted my least so variant brand of callousness might be bleeding through a bit too much. This thread has been like ‘the song that never ends’ since about 10 pages into it, and that brings a certain kind of exhaustion that makes it difficult to know when I’m being too callous. Maybe someone else can come along and give a lighter translation of what I said.

It’s just, there’s a certain kind of “me me me” subtext- or what *seems* to be- in the FP approach sometimes. Because the focus first and foremost seems to be one’s own story and the immediate moment- at least more than for FJs. It’s not that the individual isn’t important- it’s just that we work that out afterward in a very lengthy internal process, one that is so vague it’s hard to talk about but it's constantly going on. I know how I feel about things- just not right away- and I think it’s important for others to know how they feel about things too. I just don’t understand this ‘talking about it right away’ stuff.

I was trying to get at *why* it looks like ‘playing stupid’ or why it looks like manipulation, basically. Because it doesn’t occur to us to present our immediate impressions of our own story- and instead we present immediate impressions of ‘shared story’- it’s hard not to see someone present their own immediate impressions of their own story as trying to ‘guide’ the shared story in a really self absorbed way. But understanding all this better sheds light on the extent to which it *isn’t* someone trying to pass off “Me me me” as the ‘shared story’- that it’s simply presenting immediate impressions?

I’m really hoping someone else can maybe say this in a less harsh way.
The problem is, you've put me in a pretty difficult position. :(

You've assumed (and praised) the effectiveness and accuracy of your own method of reading people, in such a manner, that makes me feel that to disagree with you in any way would sound like a stubborn refusal to believe an undeniable truth.

You've diminished my method of reading people as inherently flawed and prone to inaccuracy, so much so, that I feel belittled. I feel like you've undermined even the possibility that my opinions might have a kernel of truth.

You've diminished my method of interacting with people so much, that I don't feel safe enough to open my mouth now. How can I? All I'm going to be second-guessing every innocent thing I write, worrying if I sound selfish and self-centred. This hurts the most.

In not so many words, you've suggested there's no way I can effectively communicate with you or breach any impasse with INFJs in general, while I am behaving like my (wrong) natural self.



Look, I honestly don't want to start an argument here. Your post is just so hard for me to read. I'm sure you meant well, that is, I hope you meant well, because I can no longer tell (and to believe that you really meant all this would only increase my disillusionment). It's just that, not only do I feel that I am no longer speaking to an open mind or sympathetic ears, you're basically destroying any sense of hope I had that we are moving forward here, or even that progress is possible.

I don't even know what to say any more. I'm even afraid you're going to question, dismiss or belittle what I've written here... :mellow:
 

Tiltyred

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Random, during the intermission:

I actually don't have any problem whatsoever interacting with INFPs outside of this forum, and for the most part, not here either. I don't have problems with INFPs irl, either. Just wanted to get that out there.

and to say this is very fine work, Peacebaby

and that agenda matters. If uumlau tells me something, I listen, because he has zero agenda. If Highlander tells me something, I listen, because he has zero agenda. I started out completely sympathetic to Mane and wanting to help, but he has lost his credibility with me because he's proven to be insensitive, insistent, and full of personal agenda. Don't know about other INFJs, but for me, trust has to be there and has to be earned (we've said this but apparently it hasn't sunk in for at least Mane), not just on an emotional level, but on a level of authority as well. Do I feel the other person knows what they're talking about, do I feel they are competent to judge me, do I admire their behavior and want to emulate it -- if yes, then compliance. If no, then not. (just realized what I'm talking about here is respect. and that for me, it's big.)

Mane has shared with me that he is speaking for INFJs who are not comfortable posting in this thread for various reasons but instead choose to air their views to him. I thought this was interesting. I've deleted most of my posts and have cut way down responding and/or can not respond at all if my presence is keeping anyone from participating. To the extent that I've squelched anyone but Mane, I apologize.

[MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] -- could it be that we don't want company so much as a witness? I've often thought this. I just want someone to know how I feel. I don't need to know that they felt it too, or for them to feel it with me, I just want someone to know. I just want to be heard. (I'm just tossing this out for whatever it might be worth -- I could be wrong.) So when INFJ says "Oh, bad thing happened" and INFP says "Oh! I know just how you feel! Bad thing happened to me, too! Let me tell you all about it," it seems to INFJ like INFP is changing the subject, like "Oh. Ok. Or we could talk about you, yes"? In any case, I just wanted to say that I have admired your efforts very much and feel you are a fine person.
 

PeaceBaby

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[MENTION=5723]Tiltyred[/MENTION]: excellent points on the agenda, and the pushing of what appears to be personal agenda, and authority/trust ... I have some thoughts floating around in my mind on that, and that's perfect to tie into Ti's influence ... after my mind recovers from the current jelly-like state that those three posts have turned my brain into.
 

Fidelia

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Random, during the intermission:

I actually don't have any problem whatsoever interacting with INFPs outside of this forum, and for the most part, not here either. I don't have problems with INFPs irl, either. Just wanted to get that out there.

and to say this is very fine work, Peacebaby

and that agenda matters. If uumlau tells me something, I listen, because he has zero agenda. If Highlander tells me something, I listen, because he has zero agenda. I started out completely sympathetic to Mane and wanting to help, but he has lost his credibility with me because he's proven to be insensitive, insistent, and full of personal agenda. Don't know about other INFJs, but for me, trust has to be there and has to be earned (we've said this but apparently it hasn't sunk in for at least Mane), not just on an emotional level, but on a level of authority as well. Do I feel the other person knows what they're talking about, do I feel they are competent to judge me, do I admire their behavior and want to emulate it -- if yes, then compliance. If no, then not. (just realized what I'm talking about here is respect. and that for me, it's big.)

...

[MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] -- could it be that we don't want company so much as a witness? I've often thought this. I just want someone to know how I feel. I don't need to know that they felt it too, or for them to feel it with me, I just want someone to know. I just want to be heard. (I'm just tossing this out for whatever it might be worth -- I could be wrong.) So when INFJ says "Oh, bad thing happened" and INFP says "Oh! I know just how you feel! Bad thing happened to me, too! Let me tell you all about it," it seems to INFJ like INFP is changing the subject entirely? In any case, I just wanted to say that I have admired your efforts very much and feel you are a fine person.

I identify with a lot of the sentiments Tilty expresses in this post. For me too, I like and get along well with INFPs both inside and outside of the forum. This is a unique opportunity to understand the inner workings of how two types interact on a deeper level in a way that rarely comes up in real life except with a very close, very longterm friendship/familial relationship, or with a romantic partner.

I don't think that your way is either invalid or wrong, [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION]. It is foreign though and sometimes in expressing unsureness about how your way works, it can sound more like saying it's not right at all when it is really requesting more information to understand. Even Z Buck was aware that her post seemed a little stark and was looking for someone to help her clarify that it wasn't judgement she was expressing so much as just explaining how it feels if we don't have adequate background information. From an INFJ perspective, this is what we not only want but need to be able to decide what we think about our own way of interacting. (By the way, I'm not claiming to speak for Z Buck, or for all INFJs everywhere either, so correct me if I'm mistaken).

I remember in another thread realizing that I had really ended up hurting Esoteric Wench by explaining how her interaction felt to me. It never occurred to me that I was offering anything more than an impression for her to ponder and factor in. Like getting outside feedback on how your golf swing is looking or something. I think this is a fundamental difference between us. That kind of information to us is softened and neutralized by the "seems" or the "feels". It's offering information that we can't get from ourselves, and is inviting additional information from the other person to correct our perception or feeling. What I think we often overlook is that people with introverted feeling are affected by this much differently. It is invalidating them as a person and is deeply cutting.

Since learning that, I sometimes still fail to remember how much the other person can be affected by something that doesn't strike me that way personally. So I read what you replied to Z Buck, but I didn't really understand just how seriously it had affected you until last post of yours (and then felt stupid, since it was something that I actually had known about). I'm so sorry about that.

Maybe it's too soon to talk about it, but do you have any ideas for how we can better convey useful information for understanding what's in one another's heads while not inflicting wounds unintentionally? I really, really don't want to be inadvertently doing that, but I can't always see when I am until afterwards. (I've got it that use of the words "seems" and "feels" feel just stating the same thing as fact, as well as invalidating a person's strengths, identity and striking at who they are as a person).

For what it's worth, I have greatly appreciated and thought over the ideas in your posts and I think that you have done a fantastic job of helping to bridge the gap for me throughout this thread.

I do identify with what Tilty is saying by way of explanation. I think it is partly because Fe users tend to express feelings or events for a different reason than Fi users, and so when they are offered the response that a Fi user would expect and respond to, it is surprising to them (and vice-versa). For me, I want people to understand where I am coming from or know something about me or get a more complete picture of the situation. I didn't realize until coming here that Fi's currency is shared experience (I'm saying it wrong, but at a glance that it how I would describe it to myself).

Both currencies are entirely valid and can be appreciated and enjoyed by both types. (If you've ever experienced Fi caring, there's nothing in the world like it!). However, like someone said before, it's like expecting one food and being surprised with another. Both pizza and cheeseburgers are tasty. However, if I believe that someone is offering me a slice of pizza and I think it is their version of a cheeseburger, my initial reaction might be a rather ungracious "This is a terrible cheeseburger! It isn't right at all!" I might even go on to explain how they made it wrong and what would have to change if it were to be a good cheeseburger. ("Look, you've got tomato sauce on here! There's no hamburger patty! etc etc) However, if I know that they are offering me pizza, I can appreciate it for the culinary delight that it is and also appreciate their mastery at creating something that I can't replicate in the least.

To me, the breakdown is occurring with what we each are expecting we're getting, and not in your actually culinary prowess or the quality of the ingredients used.
 

Starry

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Southern Kross - I will do everything in my power to be as 'abrasive-free' as I possibly can in this message in order to accommodate what can only be understood by me as...'your hypocrisy'. For example, I have learned from your contributions in this thread that while OA's abrasive manner should absolutely be ignored by the INFJs...my manner is apparently cause for you to not even try to understand what I'm saying or treat me like there is the possibility that you might not have a good grasp on things like say...'my motivations', etc.

Oh, I saw the point of the hyperbole but it doesn't appeal to me. I see it as distortion and distraction, not as something bringing clarity and reducing "white noise". It sounds to me like a child reduced to calling names when an argument doesn't go their way. Not an effective tool at all in my eyes, and, at the risk of sounding humourless, not my brand of 'wit'.:coffee:

People get a bit dramatic when they're angry or hurt, so sometimes they might inadvertently misrepresent the situation or talk in hyperbole. That's no reason for me to completely disregard what they're saying" - this comes back to what I was saying about emotions being merely signs and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We then try to mine what we can from what is said, to find nuggets of truth (ie. search for the essence), without worrying too much about the 'veils' (ie. the anger, pain, and possible misrepresentation). To us finding those nuggets is a sign that there is value in what that person is saying.

The INFJs in this thread seem to really like you and appreciate what you have to say. As for me, however, as an individual that has been profoundly misunderstood, insulted and disregarded as having nothing valuable to say by you...I personally do not have a lot of faith in your interpretation of 'things'.

So it comes as no surprise that when I read Z Buck's message I see none of what you see and find your response to it incredibly odd. Almost like...??? Hyperbole. How you are reading 'she is diminishing your interaction style' (or whatever) and that you are experiencing a sense of being 'belittled' is completely beyond me.
 

Fidelia

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Just as an aside - do Fi users have a filtering system for whose voices they find credible and whose they don't, or are there nuggets of truth in all if people just are willing to go looking for them? I'm confused about this.
 

Starry

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Just as an aside - do Fi users have a filtering system for whose voices they find credible and whose they don't, or are there nuggets of truth in all if people just are willing to go looking for them? I'm confused about this.

Like I said...I'm noticing a great deal of hypocrisy in this thread. And prior to 'it' I may have answered 'No, not really.' But a different picture is currently emerging in my mind. I think Fi may, in fact, bring about some form of 'idealism' in where the 'user' is able to claim...even believe on some level that they are truly non-judgmental...or sincerely willing to set aside differing styles...blah, blah, blah...and somewhat objectively absorb the message...when in reality it is really about the nature of the message itself. Do I 'like' what you are saying...and if I don't I will assign 'poor intent' or what-have-you to you.

I will have to think more about this...but as for right now...again...there seems to be a differrent picture emerging.
 

skylights

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Speaking of asides, the funny thing about FP/FJ threads is I tend to get along better with FJs IRL. :shrug:


fidelia said:
Just as an aside - do Fi users have a filtering system for whose voices they find credible and whose they don't, or are there nuggets of truth in all if people just are willing to go looking for them? I'm confused about this.


Nuggets, probably. But people are always impacted by their personal lenses, so personal "truth" isn't always particularly objective. It kind of comes down to asking if there is a singular reality, and I don't know if there is. So at least to me, it's a balancing game of practicality and fulfillment - I want everyone to feel loved and heard, but in practical terrms I have to be aware of how skewed their perception is in comparison to others' and I have to protect myself from the potential negative ramifications of that.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I don't even know what to say any more. I'm even afraid you're going to question, dismiss or belittle what I've written here... :mellow:

Yeah, there seems to be a central theme of misunderstanding to the point of :shock: over and over in this thread. And I don’t want to perpetuate this, so I’m not going to break down your post with “how did you get that?!” questions (if only because I don’t know the ‘correct’ way to do that here). I was actually trying to be helpful, explaining the misunderstanding that causes the ‘playing stupid’ or ‘being manipulating’ impression. I kinda feel like you didn’t catch the part where I said it’s the lazy Ni assumption- that it’s what it would mean if we said those kinds of things ourselves- and thought I had made clear that the problem was mis-hearing “me me me” on account of not understanding the “this is the affect this immediate moment has on me” FiNe approach to interacting with others. [And I kinda feel like you made some lazy Ji assumptions of your own in interpreting what I said (like what Starry alluded to), but seriously, I think I’ve met my threshold with this thread.]


It is weird, this forum thing that happens, that's for sure.
 

Fidelia

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I've noticed that a common theme with Fi users is that everyone's voice must be heard. Yet on the other hand, does this mean that there's no room at all for personal preference, or any filters to put it through? Is all of the filtering done purely looking at the message without any interest in its source? What about snarkiness with each other - is that just when a value of one person gets stepped on by another somehow or is that something else? What about if a person's feeling tones are off from the message they are giving? What if you doubt their intentions, do you still see parts of their message as valid?

Edit: Interesting Starry - I'd like to hear more about that when you've had time to think it out.
 

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Just as an aside - do Fi users have a filtering system for whose voices they find credible and whose they don't, or are there nuggets of truth in all if people just are willing to go looking for them? I'm confused about this.

I think the clue lies within the fact that most INFP's say they don't use the "Ignore" function ... certainly there are voices that I listen to for different things more. But I will read every post, what everyone says, and look for the truth in that.

My impression is that INFJ's don't read every post, especially if they don't feel the writer is credible or they "dislike" them. Is that true?

Do I 'like' what you are saying...and if I don't I will assign 'poor intent' or what-have-you to you.

I kind of think a turn of phrase caught SK off-guard, touched a hurty-spot. And, I'm not sure at her entrance-point in thread if she'd seen ZBuck talk about this already. I will check. If you just saw those "Me me me" things out of the blue, it could feel out-of-left-field and harsh.

The funny thing about FP/FJ threads is I tend to get along better with FJs IRL.

Yerp.

Nuggets, probably. But people are always impacted by their personal lenses, so personal "truth" isn't always particularly objective.

Oh I agree, I've said the whole "subjective is subjective" thing about 10 times in this thread alone. :)

It is weird, this forum thing that happens, that's for sure.

Yerp. Read my three part series above, see what you think. Plus, stay tuned for PART 4! :happy2:

I've noticed that a common theme with Fi users is that everyone's voice must be heard. Yet on the other hand, does this mean that there's no room at all for personal preference, or any filters to put it through? Is all of the filtering done purely looking at the message without any interest in its source? What about snarkiness with each other - is that just when a value of one person gets stepped on by another somehow or is that something else? What about if a person's feeling tones are off from the message they are giving? What if you doubt their intentions, do you still see parts of their message as valid?

Actually these are huge questions that will take time to respond to. But the quick answer is that it's all feelings, eh? Yes, there is personal preference, and the filters are feelings / truthiness ones. The source is of interest, yes, but we see patterns of response that lead us to anticipate reactions from each person. So it's not surprising when people do or say certain things. As far as snarkiness with each other, I'll have to think about how best to answer that. If the feeling tones don't resonate with the message, we'll want to figure out why. If we doubt intentions, we still find what's in each message we can take away.
 

cascadeco

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I actually don't have any problem whatsoever interacting with INFPs outside of this forum, and for the most part, not here either. I don't have problems with INFPs irl, either. Just wanted to get that out there.

skylights said:
The funny thing about FP/FJ threads is I tend to get along better with FJs IRL.

The cynic in me thinks that this is probably because for both parties, irl, the bulk of what's 'said' in this thread is never articulated verbally irl. Could be expanded to all types, all individuals, all interactions... if irl we all knew exactly how the other person was feeling, or thinking, etc, how easily would we be able to get along? Do we ever really know the other person? Do we really want to? What would that mean? (total philosophical tangent, lol)

I mean I think that's both the beauty and the difficulty of written media/online... a lot is lost, but then, the inner world of all is revealed: as much as one chooses to reveal, that is. And the inner world, the thoughts or feelings not covered up by a lifetime of learnings and filters and biting-tongues, is going to be scary, unsettling, or perplexing if revealed to most, if not all. NFP's and NFJ's alike are prone to be hurt if unvarnished thoughts/feelings are rejected or misunderstood.
 

skylights

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The cynic in me thinks that this is probably because for both parties, irl, the bulk of what's 'said' in this thread is never articulated verbally irl. [...] And the inner world, the thoughts or feelings not covered up by a lifetime of learnings and filters and biting-tongues, is going to be scary, unsettling, or perplexing if revealed to most, if not all.

Absolutely.

I think the lack of physical presence of a person makes it so much easier to feel disconnected. My ISFJ and I clearly don't think alike, and we've had a number of disagreements which revealed how very differently we process: me, individual-subjectively and conceptually, him, collective-subjectively and practically. At first it felt very alienating, to the point of us feeling like we could never understand one another. But then we got tired of arguing and leaned against one another, and I think the humanity of us came pouring back into ourselves, realizing how even though we have these very different lenses, our similarities are overwhelming to the point that our differences ultimately cannot keep us apart. We don't have that luxury of physical being here.

Perhaps valuable to keep in mind that we are all human, all interested in psychology, all members of TypeC, mostly NFs, mostly INFs, and all seeking understanding. So many bonds we all share. We all bear pain and sorrow and stress and happiness and love.

As for the tangent - well, theoretically, knowing another person inside and out would be so encompassing, so enveloping - it would probably cause a huge loss of identity, and you would almost become a hybrid of two people. I'm not sure we really want that because our differences make us so valuable to one another. I love having lots of different types in my life because it means so much strength.
 

Fidelia

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I don't know about the others, but I do generally read every post, except for a very few ponderous ones that take 8-10 re-readings and I'm not sure of what they are saying even then.

If someone annoys me, I still am likely to read what they read. I may not put much stock by it, but not reading it leaves a hole in my understanding of the thread. And...well maybe I'm just nosy like that. I put one person on ignore once (just because their version of reality was so skewed and it was beginning to really negatively impact my ability to participate/mod on the forum, but I took them off soon after just because I hated not knowing what was going on. I felt blind.)
 

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I don't know about the others, but I do generally read every post, except for a very few ponderous ones that take 8-10 re-readings and I'm not sure of what they are saying even then.

:laugh: yes I do that too.

If someone annoys me, I still am likely to read what they read. I may not put much stock by it, but not reading it leaves a hole in my understanding of the thread. And...well maybe I'm just nosy like that. I put one person on ignore once (just because their version of reality was so skewed and it was beginning to really negatively impact my ability to participate/mod on the forum, but I took them off soon after just because I hated not knowing what was going on. I felt blind.)

Interesting too ... I want as much data as I can get, and you need that info as well, but we likely need it for different reasons and use it in different ways according to our function order. More pondering on my part to commence ... thanks for your reply.
 

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I read every post. In a thread that's hard to follow or takes a lot of energy, I use Ignore to filter out people whose posts are low content/high annoyance to me personally, so I can focus on the thread. For me, low content/high annoyance can be anything from 1. arguing for the sake of arguing/intellectual showing off and oneupmanship, 2. attention-whoring/flirting excessively, 3. axe to grind. It's usually not personal but it can be, in which case I use Ignore so I don't get any further hurt or inflict hurt myself by losing my temper.
 
S

Society

Guest
No, the critical question is, "How much of this behavior is due to the person in your life having serious issues, and how much is due to her being an INFJ?"
There is something to be gained by learning, "Here is how an INFJ with serious issues tends to (mis)behave."
There is something to be gained by learning that certain behaviors are just normal INFJ behaviors.
There is nothing to be gained by implying that other INFJs (whom you hardly know, and certainly don't know in real life) are prone to the same misbehavior.

that has IMO proven itself to not be true:
it enabled to differentiate the repeating patterns from the specific exceptions, it brought issues to the table which others could relate too and reframe in various ways and caused the debate to spun around them both, eventually allowing for both conflicting examples and explanations (with the good work of skylights), which highlighted and cut down to more probable potential causes and influences, and have the potential to yield ways to work with and around those causes.

As for issues of denial, um, most everyone who misbehaves denies it, and everyone accused of misbehavior that hasn't misbehaved will deny it.
me and others - including a good few of the INFJs here - have shared anecdotes contradicting that statement.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
that has IMO proven itself to not be true:
it enabled to differentiate the repeating patterns from the specific exceptions, it brought issues to the table which others could relate too and reframe in various ways and caused the debate to spun around them both, eventually allowing for both conflicting examples and explanations (with the good work of skylights), which highlighted and cut down to more probable potential causes and influences, and have the potential to yield ways to work with and around those causes.


me and others - including a good few of the INFJs here - have shared anecdotes contradicting that statement

It sounds like you gained something from infj's much earlier on in this thread sharing stories, and you feel better about overall 'patterns', able to extinguish between more isolated cases vs. not.

I can't say I gained anything through the methods you utilized, though, other than being resentful. Pushing so hard to get information YOU want, regardless of how it impacts everyone? Is that worth the cost? Yes, you got the stories, and Peacebaby alluded long ago as to her admiring the 'strategy' you employed, but the 'strategy' is precisely what I find so lame. The agenda aspect, as Tiltyred mentioned. So you may have gained better understanding of infjs', which was your aim/goal/purpose, but believe me, you didn't build warm fuzzies and goodwill between myself and you, in the process.

I actually find the nfp's in this thread much more palatable, and :heart: the effort put out by all of them. So, it's not Fe/Fi, Te/Ti, and so on. I also know it's not an across-the-board entp thing. And, I know this is my own reaction, so I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just stating my own lens; so I'm not trying to paint this across everyone else, as I'm sure there are several infj's out there who have a different take on it. :) And that's ok. I just don't think the net-result that you outline is quite as positive and innocuous as you state. Just because people give information and end up sharing, doesn't mean they at the same time don't alter their own opinions of you/the thread in the process.

If the net result is understanding, but understanding was reached via a process that leaves casualities left and right, then what you might end up with is Understanding, With No Desire to Interact Further. There has to be a better way of going about it. (and now this post is becoming more general)
 
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