I expressed it in a quote response to you. Are you dismissing that?
i suppose you mean this:
I suppose now is as good a time as any to just say that I absolutely feel remorse for any frustration of negativity I have contributed to this discussion or any other on the forum. I feel remorse for every time I have caused people pain in my life, and noted earlier that this has tended to happen when I experience depression because the overwhelm of emotion results in a more self-centered mindset that cannot operate with a meaningful level of empathy.
honestly no, it's not. from an outside perspective, it is incredibly general and you aren't taking responsibility for anything specific you've done - while at the time of the writing it was possible that it came from a place of genuine remorse, a generalization that stems from a deep understanding of an assortment of points at which you acknowledge you have caused frustration and have collected into one apology, the lack of examples of any actual action, deed or behavior which you where acknowledging, and the fact the entire expression was limited to the statement "i feel remorse", made the more obvious interpretation a lot more likely, that being that the topic at hand gave you the opportunity to place a "just in case" disclaimer which could help you avoid and sooth down any future hostility with the people you've argued with.
at the time i didn't know, so i just kept on asking for specific examples. ofcourse, i say "at the time" for a reason. how long ago would you have to remember a time where someone negotiating through pre-framing you between the hammer and the anvil was a cause of frustration? "if you don't admit it it proves the point" statement rings a bell? the famous OA's list perhaps? we're talking a few days, and within the context of this conversation.
yet, with the recent memory of a simple social tool causing you frustration, you have just being rad handed caught trying (Failing) to utilize the exact same tool with me - a.k.a. the emperor's new clothes reference. what kind of remorse can this possibly be if you are choosing to do the very thing you have just expressed remorse? if this was truly a remorse from a deep understanding of an assortment of things you have just done which have caused consequences to the feelings of others you did not want, a.k.a. frustration, why are you then - barely a moment after - choosing to do that again, merely a few days after having had the experience and the connection to understand that the action your doing would do the exact thing you feel remorseful about? how can that, rationally speaking, possibly be genuine?
and then there's the difference. OA? not big on Fe. FPs? <3 'em, very conscious of their direct actions, but they aren't very conscious of the social web in which they interact with and what it creates. you and i do. i'm already in deep Ti mode here, so intense that it's pretty much making my Fe band over... do i really need to 1up the inherit dorkiness in that and quote freaking spiderman? "with power..."
every kid is told on a countless occasions to say "i am sorry" by any kinder garden teacher and most parents, long before they are able to understand why what they did had any negative impact, and they do it wonderfully. the reason remorse is meaningful isn't for the word "Sorry", there's no magical world changing affect to the word sorry, remorse is meaningful because it has the promise that shows the character from which trustworthyness stems from, it shows a willingness to understand how we caused negative consequences to the other, and an inner drive and will to avoid causing such harm in the future, and put someone else in front of your sense of esteem while doing so.
so no, i'm sorry, i am probably coming off way more hostile and almost attackish then i want too, and i wish i had a deeper toolbucket in the realm of hit softening when i see truths that can be insulting for people, but no. the original post didn't express that meaning of remorse then your actions bluntly contradicted any sign that you have experienced it.
objectively, experiencing remorse for an action followed by doing the action = no possible within the realm of potential definitions remorse might have in which it is in itself meaningful at all'. the interpretation of that as remorse is irrational. the requirement to accept this as remorse demands that we'll strip remorse from any meaning. and when an NT says irrational, i means "make my Ti hurt", "be the cause of cognitive dissonance", "conflicts with the belief that your words from one post and your words from another post happened within the same universe", "statement makes no sense".
and no matter how much i'd want too, i can't choose to not see that.
as far as causing frustration goes, the attempt above failed, but this one didn't:
There are others, but if the recent and direct ones don't register, then I'm not sure the time investment to look through the posts would be worthwhile.
stating more of the obvious: you expressed that you have seen INFJs express remorse, you have expressed that you will find some specific examples, and you then found an excuse to not do so.
which, other then matching perfectly with an item of OA list, is an obvious choice on your part to do something which one can understand to cause frustration by sheer common sense, not just for me, but - if i was right that this is the common thread linking the many statements - then for anyone of the people here who empathize with that desire and read your promise.
it is obvious cause of frustration because it is literally telling people your going to give them something that at least a few of them have openly expressed desiring, and then taking it away from them.
that's not only defies your claim for any sense of remorse for causing frustration in the thread, it's incredibly thoughtless, if you would only stop to ask yourself, why we would desire such a thing?
look, some people are here - in typology forums - for a sense of identity or affirmation, some people are here for a sense of belonging and connection to people who are more like them (perhaps more common for INFJs since you are the least likely to meet other people who are like you in the real world, at least in the limited level of similarity that typology provides), some are here to seek question about themselves, understand growth patterns, and many other reasons. but many are here with a baggage, with past and current relationships that they do not quite understand, from children and parents to lovers and friends to co workers and extended family, and see in typology a language in which the differences can be understood
so stop and think, why would the people who have that - at least as one of their reasons - want to see a type expressing remorse, or complain about members of that type not being able to do so? again, common sense takes charge - because the people in those specific relationships haven't expressed any remorse. those people have done things and are doing things which they have no ability to go through the process of placing their ego aside, acknowledging what they did, understanding the damage and hurt it causes others, putting themselves out there if it is for something that they did in the past, or stopping if its something they are doing in the present. instead they did what the did for their reasons to do so, and have never asked themselves what that means for anyone else.
can you think how that feels? can you think how difficult it is to forgive someone who has no capacity to acknowledge that they have anything to be forgiven for? to understand what that means, we have to ask what is forgiveness, what stands behind the word: forgiveness isn't just some abstract form of mental justice, just like remorse is the promise to try to not cause what you just felt remorseful for, protect the other from that aspect of yourself, so in turn, forgiveness is the act of relieving one's self from the fear of being caused that pain in the future, and in return, opening one's self to see the good in the other person, which then can play its role in healing the one expressing remorse, the one who gave up some of their esteem for the other person, relieving them of feeling crappy about themselves and what they did. so this is what those people - and me among them - never get. so much like those who have being victims to crimes and have to live knowing that the criminal is still out there, so they persist to live and guard themselves from that fear - they can push it to the back of their head but thats not close to letting go, and yes, even to the point of guarding themselves by avoiding placing trust in an entire MBTI type. and by the time that understanding has penetrated deep enough to see the inability as fact and extending it to the person's type, have came to the conclusion that they won't ever be able to see it. never get closure or reconciliation past deeds, never see the end of current ones.
so what do you think seen remorse from an INFJ - even someone who is somewhat like the person who has harmed them - comes to represent in that context? depending on how deep the hurt is and how persistent it is - its freaking huge.
so when you promised them - us - that you can show examples of INFJs expressing remorse and then find an excuse to take it away, that wasn't just the cruelty of offering a child candy only to deny it, rather: that's one hell of a candy.
you can go on and withholding it, i doubt reading this would put you in a helpful mood towards the one writing it, it is certainly not a pleasant or comfortable read given it's content, or alternatively, go back on it because - i hope not but i see the possibility - you might question whether you had it in the first place. or you'll really freaking surprise me and deliver (yep, indulgent pre-framing right here on my part). but which ever path it takes... one more thing:
you see all of the above? what is most of it? it's questions. its something you have - introverted thinking - the glorious question making machine. it would have being that simple to have not done that, and thus - given the assumption that you are capable of it - not having to feel remorse for it now (or later - actually a calm down between reading and answering might be desirable). simple, by asking yourself the same questions.most of the distance from the questions to the answers isn't very far, and would be easily available externally if it was. all the "unhealthy INFJ"s those people are talking about, do you think they intended of causing harm? wanted it? wanted to be the bad guys that the act of stating facts about their behavior has come to portray them as? maybe, but i really doubt it. my suspicion is that just like you in this little incident but in a larger scale and larger actions, they just didn't stop to ask the questions, and then... got stuck. because they didn't have the ability to experience the tools to get them out of it. and i really want to believe that its not a persistent case. which is why, for me? seen any INFJ that they can express remorse, blowing that suspicion away? its huge. so when you can understand the rational of why, trust me when i say, i want to see that so freaking badly.
