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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yeah, it was a dumb idea, one of those things where I look back and so, "What was I thinking?!"
    I personally thought it was a brilliant idea. I myself vomited inferior Te fuelled rants in multiple places on this thread. This however was only a sideshow compared to the colossal conflict my dear OrangeAppled found herself in. She truly drove the knife into the NiFe. Brilliant show.

    I haven't had many problems with INFJs this past year save for the usual:

    - Assuming most INFJs are mistyped INFPs (what about ISFJs, ENFPs, ENFJs and ISFPs?) just because Vicki Jo said so. Admittedly however I (along with some others I have encountered online) have similar gripes with my own type at times: believing them mistypes.

    - Some have a communication style (both interpersonal and introspective) which somehow makes me feel very uncomfortable. I assume it was Fe but I have not encountered this phenomenon with ENFJs or ESFJs so I can only assume Ni is affecting the mix somehow. It has overtones which suggest a lack of humility - blatant kiss-own-ass remarks and outlook. It is unfortunate that I have not grown past this reaction.

    -This whole "NT hybrid"/"Closest point to an NT you can get" routine. The four NT types lack specific shared characteristics outside of "preference for thinking and intuition". Function wise they are no closer to "NTs" than ENFPs.

    -How so many INFJs type as enneagram 5 (and 4w5). I am sure there are numerous INFJs who are these types but the quantity of them is hard to believe. If you were to use "cognitive function stacks influence personal motivations" as a premise where in NiFeTiSe would you find the motivations for four and five?

  2. #932
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I personally thought it was a brilliant idea.
    Thank you. Until today I didn't know anyone thought that.

    I myself vomited inferior Te fuelled rants in multiple places on this thread
    .

    Oh, that's okay. I completely bailed out on it because it all got way over my head at the time and I didn't have to energy or the knowledge to add anything of value to it. I can say that my original intention was without malice. I just wanted to know how to be a better friend to someone irl.


    - Assuming most INFJs are mistyped INFPs (what about ISFJs, ENFPs, ENFJs and ISFPs?) just because Vicki Jo said so. Admittedly however I (along with some others I have encountered online) have similar gripes with my own type at times: believing them mistypes.
    I believe it's easy to be mistyped online, and I agree with you. Lots of people are mistyped as something else, not just INFPs and INFJs. [scratches her head and wonders, "Is my friend right? Am I an ISTP with a highly developed Ni? Is such a thing even possible?] As for enneagram, I've given up on mine. Maybe there should be a 10th enneagram!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #933
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Standuble;2164961]I personally thought it was a brilliant idea. I myself vomited inferior Te fuelled rants in multiple places on this thread. This however was only a sideshow compared to the colossal conflict my dear OrangeAppled found herself in. She truly drove the knife into the NiFe. Brilliant show.

    I haven't had many problems with INFJs this past year save for the usual:

    - Assuming most INFJs are mistyped INFPs (what about ISFJs, ENFPs, ENFJs and ISFPs?) just because Vicki Jo said so. Admittedly however I (along with some others I have encountered online) have similar gripes with my own type at times: believing them mistypes.

    - Some have a communication style (both interpersonal and introspective) which somehow makes me feel very uncomfortable. I assume it was Fe but I have not encountered this phenomenon with ENFJs or ESFJs so I can only assume Ni is affecting the mix somehow. It has overtones which suggest a lack of humility - blatant kiss-own-ass remarks and outlook. It is unfortunate that I have not grown past this reaction.

    -This whole "NT hybrid"/"Closest point to an NT you can get" routine. The four NT types lack specific shared characteristics outside of "preference for thinking and intuition". Function wise they are no closer to "NTs" than ENFPs.

    How so many INFJs type as enneagram 5 (and 4w5). I am sure there are numerous INFJs who are these types but the quantity of them is hard to believe. If you were to use "cognitive function stacks influence personal motivations" as a premise where in NiFeTiSe would you find the motivations for four and five?
    Introverted intuition and introverted thinking. It seems to be very rare to find an INTP for instance, who isn't a 5. Introverted intuition will also push them into five territory (like it does with INTJs). The deciding factor, I guess, is Fe.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I personally thought it was a brilliant idea. I myself vomited inferior Te fuelled rants in multiple places on this thread. This however was only a sideshow compared to the colossal conflict my dear OrangeAppled found herself in. She truly drove the knife into the NiFe. Brilliant show.

    I haven't had many problems with INFJs this past year save for the usual:

    - Assuming most INFJs are mistyped INFPs (what about ISFJs, ENFPs, ENFJs and ISFPs?) just because Vicki Jo said so. Admittedly however I (along with some others I have encountered online) have similar gripes with my own type at times: believing them mistypes.

    - Some have a communication style (both interpersonal and introspective) which somehow makes me feel very uncomfortable. I assume it was Fe but I have not encountered this phenomenon with ENFJs or ESFJs so I can only assume Ni is affecting the mix somehow. It has overtones which suggest a lack of humility - blatant kiss-own-ass remarks and outlook. It is unfortunate that I have not grown past this reaction.

    -This whole "NT hybrid"/"Closest point to an NT you can get" routine. The four NT types lack specific shared characteristics outside of "preference for thinking and intuition". Function wise they are no closer to "NTs" than ENFPs.


    Introverted intuition and introverted thinking. It seems to be very rare to find an INTP for instance, who isn't a 5. Introverted intuition will also push them into five territory (like it does with INTJs). The deciding factor, I guess, is Fe.
    Ti is the obvious route to 5 but it is a supporting role. I fail to see how it can be so effective that it would become their primary motivations. I also fail to see how the Ni would add to it (even if they were in the grip of an Ni-Ti loop.)

    I normally don't bother too much with enneagram and this pet peeve pales a lot in comparison to the other points.

  5. #935
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Ti is the obvious route to 5 but it is a supporting role. I fail to see how it can be so effective that it would become their primary motivations. I also fail to see how the Ni would add to it (even if they were in the grip of an Ni-Ti loop.)
    What enneagram's would you associate Ni with? Maybe this is the least interesting part for you, but I'm curious.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  6. #936
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yeah, it was a dumb idea, one of those things where I look back and so, "What was I thinking?!"
    I don't think there was anything dumb about it, and I think the intentions were certainly noble enough. The beast of internet NFP/NFJ contention is kinda like Snuffleupagus. You really sort of have to see him first to believe he's there, and even then it's kinda like, "What?" You couldn't possibly have known about it as a new member.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  7. #937
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    While I sympathise with the fact that this was definitely an emotionally draining thread for the two types involved, this is easily one of the most insightful threads on the forum that I've seen in my many years here.

    The NeSi vs NiSe debating alone is mind-blowing and eye-opening in a spectacular way. It's given me access to understanding Ni(Se) in a way I've never truly had access to, in a way that many Ni-users don't understand when I ask them about it in a typically NeSi info gathering way - which was also addressed in this thread in such an insightful way.
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  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    What enneagram's would you associate Ni with? Maybe this is the least interesting part for you, but I'm curious.
    Not an easy question to answer because to a large part I am unaware of the intricacies of several types. I am torn between Naranjo's depiction of it as the primary type four function (though found the reasoning a little suspect), type six and arguments it doesn't correlate with any type in particular.

  9. #939

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    First of all, I would like to applaud you for wanting to improve. I have met my share of unhealthy INFJs who are obnoxious, arrogant and impervious to change.

    To be better INFJs, I recommend you to:

    - tone down the judging. I met an unhealthy, caustic INFJ at my previous workplace, and she felt entitled in believing that she should judge me. She had a black-and-white view of the world and a set of judgements, which by the way I might add, she didn't believe in holding herself to, but totally believed that others should be judged against. It caused me much heartache to be judged so harshly. Furthermore, she judged me without knowing all the facts.

    - express your affection.

    I have an INFJ friend and I have to figure out whether she loves me (I certainly do love her). She could be more expressing of her emotions, and not blow hot and cold sometimes.

    INFJs have amazing potential if they tone down their goddamned Ni.

    Just had to vent!

  10. #940
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don't think there was anything dumb about it, and I think the intentions were certainly noble enough. The beast of internet NFP/NFJ contention is kinda like Snuffleupagus. You really sort of have to see him first to believe he's there, and even then it's kinda like, "What?" You couldn't possibly have known about it as a new member.
    Thank you for understanding. You're right. I didn't see him until he was there.

    @Amargith Thank you for this.
    While I sympathise with the fact that this was definitely an emotionally draining thread for the two types involved, this is easily one of the most insightful threads on the forum that I've seen in my many years here.

    The NeSi vs NiSe debating alone is mind-blowing and eye-opening in a spectacular way. It's given me access to understanding Ni(Se) in a way I've never truly had access to, in a way that many Ni-users don't understand when I ask them about it in a typically NeSi info gathering way - which was also addressed in this thread in such an insightful way.
    Thanks, again. Since this thread was began I've had several opportunities to spend the day working closely with an INFP and in the course of our time together, I've worked on seeing the world through her eyes; her friendship is worth the effort to me.

    @momoness
    First of all, I would like to applaud you for wanting to improve.
    Haha...Thank you, it is a life long quest.

    I have met my share of unhealthy INFJs who are obnoxious, arrogant and impervious to change.
    I think INFJs are just like any other type in that there some shining examples and some not so shiny ones.

    INFJs have amazing potential if they tone down their goddamned Ni.
    My meager understanding of Ni is that is an insight, a sudden flash or an understanding of a concept, that may momentarily take the person out of the reality around them. It's like a Eureka moment when a sudden realization hits a person and he or she has an understanding that they didn't know they had; they are not sure where it came from. It's often hard to explain what they've "seen" or understood, because there are no words to describe it, no way to explain it. They just have to "do" it, which gives INFJs and INTJs a force of will to bring about the vision. I think the problem occurs when they become unaware of the havoc or chaos or discomfort that their vision is unleashing on others.
    The challenge comes in not becoming closed to the input of others or hardened to their concerns. As Ni doms we have to come to the realization that winning at all costs is not winning.

    So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a person's an INFJ or INTJ, it is impossible to turn Ni off. There are no magic buttons for controlling it. But it is imperative to not consistently impose it on others. That part remains a force of our own will. You're right. That DOES cause heartache for others. It makes others feel judged and belittled. I suppose that no matter how brilliant one's "vision" is, the fact remains that it is not everyone's vision. So, while I may share it with another person, I should not judge them when their priorities fall outside of my insight. That's where [in my opinion] the judging you spoke of comes in.
    tone down the judging.
    We shouldn't measure others by a measuring stick they don't even know exists. In fact, we shouldn't judge or measure others...at all.

    I have an INFJ friend and I have to figure out whether she loves me (I certainly do love her). She could be more expressing of her emotions, and not blow hot and cold sometimes.
    Not speaking for all INFJs but feelings are sticky for me. Most of the time, I don't even know how I feel, let alone have the ability to let others know how I feel. Even feelings get processed through the Ni first.


    Just had to vent!
    Venting is allowed. However, when people start throwing things at each other, I am uncomfortable [then I might have to dress up as a super hero with ninja style weapons and stop the madness!]
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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