User Tag List

First 3474828384858694 Last

Results 831 to 840 of 941

  1. #831
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    I will read these books.
    Edited: I am reading Don Miguel Ruiz, available for instant download on Nook
    Fromm is ordered, can't download it, so it will be next.

  2. #832
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    If you can't respond with your soul to BB King's "The Thrill Is Gone", you're not human.
    However, it does seem that as a genre blues is more in decline now. My friend's views are probably not far-fetched.

  3. #833
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Fromm's book was required reading in one of my psychology classes. But that was so long ago I can't remember many details.

  4. #834
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    The INFPs should read The Four Agreements. (It's only 70 pages.)

  5. #835
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The INFPs should read The Four Agreements. (It's only 70 pages.)
    Why do you think so?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #836
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't know what I think yet about that...

    I guess, yes, I would agree with PeaceBaby, that I absolutely will dictate the terms of interaction, as I would also expect others to do as well. If we agree about how to interact, then we'll interact. If we don't, then we won't. They have exactly the same right as me to decide that they don't like the terms of interaction and choose not to engage. I think this is one of the reasons why I find it so difficult to interact with larger groups of people. I'm trying to figure out what all of them are hoping to get out of the conversation, how to address those needs best and decide if I can work with it. What if I arrive at the conclusion that I can with some and not with others? Then that means that I'm being unkind or excluding some people, when it is really just that I don't see how it can turn out well, or else I just have to water it down to something that is non-offensive to anyone (and therefore not all that stimulating).
    Hmmm. I don't usually like to dictate the terms of interaction - not consciously anyway. I suppose it's entirely possible that I do dictate without knowing I do. I realise my manner and nature might put people in a position where they feel an obligation placed on them to adjust to my way. Anyway, I find that pure, unfiltered, unedited me is not really palatable to most people - so I try to adjust a little to what others need (I'm So-first though - and probably not the best INFP example). This can only go so far though; I feel like that 'pure me' is like a wild animal on a leash; it's going to want to do what it wants to do and there's only so much you can do to tame that.

    Do you really go around wondering what people are hoping to get out of a conversation? That sounds exhausting; trying to anticipate what people want that much. But then maybe it's not for you - maybe it's natural.

    I didn't consider before that the "where did I go wrong" idea was necessarily an invitation to let the other person take over. Usually that is the fundamental question that I want to answer for myself (as I am focussed on the goal I am heading towards and how I got lost on the way). I would see it a bit like making sure someone knows their way around the place (hence my filtering for credibility) and then getting advice from more than one person about where I took a wrong turn. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll just take one person's word at face value, or even that I am conducting a poll. More like accessing expertise that I don't have access to, and then making an informed choice about what I want to do with the information. I would still reserve the right to decide what I wanted to do with it. However, if it does feel like surrendering control to you guys, that's something that's really helpful for me to know, as I know I have reacted negatively to someone offering to "guide" me, when I hadn't picked them for the job.
    Oh, absolutely. This is the most reasonable response - I'm saying I know my reaction isn't reasonable, but it's so strong, it's hard to let go of.

    It's still not a question I would ask and I don't entirely know why. Perhaps my previous answer encompassed the reason, but maybe it didn't get at the root of it. It's just too direct and yet knowing/cautious at the same time - this means it fits with Fe more than Te in my eyes. Te would ask instead, "what do you want from me?", and Fi says, "I think we're not on the same page" (I have said this exact phrase when in a confused argument). I realise the Fi phrase is not even a question at all and maybe this is the problem. I prefer to make observations or give possible answers than ask questions in such circumstances. Perhaps if I asked questions it would seem more deferent and open-minded.

    I guess I should confess that I want to understand what you guys see differently from me, not so much as a way of validating individuals, as to create generalized rules for myself of interaction that will best accomplish everyone's aims in interacting with each other and so that I do not offend needlessly. I also want to add that knowledge to the structure that I am creating in my head of how things work, as it creates a sense of both satisfaction and security to know how the pieces fit into a larger whole. I think maybe this seems a little cold and impersonal. Maybe even mercenary?
    I see no problem with this at all. I'm totally for trying to grasp a general trend and applying that to real life - I do this myself. Any effort to learn about others without a devious goal in mind (eg. like the best way to con them) can't seem wrong to me.

    I've found this thread some of the most interesting, real discussion that I've seen on here in a long time and I think at the end of it, I will come away with several points that help inform my perspective courtesy of you folks being willing to help out in the way you have.
    Yes, it is stimulating. I think we have a lot to thank @OrangeAppled and @Mane for - there's been some real development and insights as a result of what they've said (whatever you think about their posts).
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #837
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Why do you think so?
    I think you would enjoy it and find it edifying and empowering. @PeaceBaby, if you want, send me your email address and I will lend it to you.

  8. #838
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    260

    Default

    I wasn't going to reply to this thread although I'm getting a lot out of reading it, but something felt off about some of the comments recently that I couldn't figure out. Then I realized that there were no sx-dom INFJs in the mix, and here I am. (BTW, I am NOT one of the INFJs who were communicating secretly with @Mane.)

    Regarding INFJs having walls up compared to INFPs and feeling separated from people:

    I agree that the majority of INFJs have some kind of system for letting people in that is unlike how INFPs do it. (Other threads have called it circles of trust or somesuch.) You must pass those gateways in order to get into levels of personal information.

    However, there is something to be said about the differences in instinctual variants too. When I first was reading what was said about this subject in this thread, I was confused as to what the INFJs (especially @Tiltyred) were saying because this hasn't been my experience. This isn't an exaggeration to say that the majority of Fe-users I know are sx-doms and the Fi-users I know are all sp-doms (one is so/sp). And from this sample, it's the Fi-users who are "I am me" while the Fe-users are "we are a unit." Since the INFJs in here are sp-dom or so-dom while the INFPs who are still around are so-dom, this will make a slight difference. I don't really think of myself as self-contained as much as others are saying they do, and I love connecting with others and sharing things. I know this isn't a huge point in the overall content of this thread (as it stands now), but I wanted to put that out there that there are other INFJ POVs.

    Also, I do want to understand Fi and Fi-users--this is why I've been following this thread and I've followed others like it. I know a lot of Fi-users IRL and want to understand/connect to them better.

    fwiw

    P.S. So many a-ha moments when reading @uumlau's recent posts . . . *goes to ponder them for a month*
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  9. #839
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Do you really go around wondering what people are hoping to get out of a conversation? That sounds exhausting; trying to anticipate what people want that much. But then maybe it's not for you - maybe it's natural.
    A person is in the room with you, sitting quietly. Then she raises her head, looks at you, and begins to speak.

    She goes from not doing something to doing something. Moving from no action to action implies a reason -- there's something that happened between the being quiet and the speaking that caused her to speak.

    That's all we're saying we're looking at. What prompts you. It's usually immediately apparent from the words. Sometimes it isn't, though.

  10. #840
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    That's a good description of the Ne approach. The Ni approach isn't revelation so much as immediately perceiving a truth as being obvious. To debate the truth feels as absurd to Ni as debating whether a red apple is red. "The apple is red, isn't it obvious? Why are we even debating whether the apple is red?" Ne instead notes that the apple isn't completely red, and points out that its insides are white, with black things, and even the skin has speckles of various non-red colors.
    You make us sound so nit-picky

    The thing is, if someone said to me, I'm looking for apples with mostly red skin, I would probably lay off and help them. The thing is the Ni+Fe statements are even more cryptic than that to me.

    Fe vs Fi is an easier barrier to cross than Ne vs Ni. Ne and Ni see different things, but Fe and Fi merely start reasoning from different places. Fe and Fi eventually meet in the middle with very similar conclusions, but if it's Fi-Ne vs Ni-Fe, they will disagree about WHY those conclusions are true, and that means they'll have a hard time arriving at the common ground.
    Interesting.

    And THIS is why the Ni/Se vs Ne/Si divide is the most difficult barrier to cross. Ne complains that Ni is all walled off and defensive, even as Ni keeps shouting, "Why are you banging on my wall?! The door is over here!" Ni's door is often invisible to Ne, and vice versa.
    And Ne users wonder why the Ni-users close the drawbridge and then leave this tiny, hidden door around the back unlocked, when it's so hard to find. It feels like a test we're bound to fail.

    I like your apple analogy and I'd like to offer another of my own of what it feels like on the other side of that.

    To me Ni+Fe posts are like treasure maps. They give us a vague outline of an island with an x marking the spot. However, the details are scant, there is no scale, the direction of north is not indicated, and many features that would help to orient us seem to be unmarked. The INFJ then drop us on of top of the mountain in the middle of the island and says to point out where the treasure will be.

    INFP: Well, I don't know. All I can do is guess from the few clues you've given me where it might be. I suppose it could be under that large palm tree way over there.
    INFJ: WRONG! STUPID! You don't know anything. It's actually 3 feet to the left of that.
    INFP: Jeez, give me a break. You made me speculate with very little to go on and actually I got pretty close in the end. Surely, I deserve a little credit for that.
    INFJ: But the point was to find the treasure and if you dug in that spot, you wouldn't find it.
    INFP: But if you had given me the chance I would have gone over there and examined the area around the big palm tree. I would have looked for possible markings, or signs that something has been buried recently, or that something was being been concealed. If there weren't any signs I would dig around in that area until I came across the treasure. I would have found it eventually.
    INFJ: The point was to work it out straight away and you didn't. This makes you a bad treasure hunter.
    INFP:
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFPs, what do ENFPs do that drives you nuts?
    By Esoteric Wench in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  2. Am I a INTP or a INFP?What do you think?
    By Tish211 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-04-2011, 09:33 PM
  3. [MBTItm] INFPs: What do you admire about ISFJs?
    By Afkan in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-13-2010, 07:40 PM
  4. [INFP] INFPs: What do you look for in friends?
    By DigitalMethod in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 10-08-2008, 11:48 AM
  5. Josh Groban: INFJ? INFP?? What do you think?
    By BookLady in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 09:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO