Since this thread is asking for INFP opinions specifically, I didn't & don't see a problem with giving an actual INFP perspective.
I think you're zeroing in on one comment I made & blowing it out of proportion. I didn't say my motive was merely to provoke. "Antagonistic" is certainly not what I meant. In addition to giving my opinion, I was hoping to get thoughtful responses instead of a brush-off, and I got much more thoughtful ones than most other posts, so it worked. That's precisely why I quoted Jung & Van Der Hoop - to avoid the "that's just some INFJs you know" brush-off or "they probably aren't even INFJs" brush-off.To Fe ears, anything said means there are about 10 things left implied that are far worse for each point. Therefore, coming from someone with whom there is insufficient relationship to supply context, and who is admittedly approaching from an antagonistic rather than constructive perspective, it is unwelcome.
No, I've explained what I'm looking for. It seems it's easier to harp on my motive than address the points for some people. I appreciate that you addressed the points before; that's all I was seeking beyond simply giving my opinion. It's not necessary to say "I'm a bad person", and I think my responses to the responses has shown that.Does it mean that INFJs are unwilling or unable to cop to any flaws? I don't think so. With the particular post in question, it feels as if the writer expects all INFJs to patently agree with all observations or else they are just as blind and selfish as the real life INFJs that said person already likes but doesn't admire (I find it hard to like people I don't admire, so I think maybe I assume automatically that others work the same way).
And to me, likability is about enjoyability. Admiration is looking up to someone. I can dislike someone & admire them, and I can enjoy them & not look up to them. So yes, we differ there.
It's side-stepping when the points aren't addressed at all or are completely twisted so as to excuse any possible personality flaw. Again, I quoted sources for the theory, because you must relate to Ni to identify as a Ni-dom, and these are points which describe negative aspects of Ni. This is how I've seen them played out in person, from an outside perspective. I wonder how INFJs identify these in themselves, if at all.OA has requested some thought and perspective on why the INFJs act as they do and what they recognize as familiar in her list. If perspective for why certain behaviour is offered though, it seems that she is saying INFJs are attempting to "sidestep" and avoid taking responsibility. It feels like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
I stated this was part of my intention, but you don't seem to want to accept it. I think you're exaggerating my manner as much more villainous than it is/was. There have been valid responses, and I've responded to them & acknowledged them as such. This sort of thing is diverting from those discussions, which I genuinely believe would not have been started if I had taken the fluffier manner you suggest. Then it would have been a circle jerk of, "oh, yeah, sometimes I'm rigid, but it works for me! hehe!".I think the issue I take is delivery and intent, which seems to be less of an issue to Fi users than expression and personal truth. I'm open to discussion with someone who either truly wants to understand what makes our behaviour make sense to us (and allows them to see it in a more charitable or comprehensible light while making us aware of the repercussions it has) or someone who truly wants to help and feels we are missing something important that will improve communication between us and other types. Either is fine. But you can't deliver in an offensive way, offer someone no valid way to respond and then finish with an "AHA! So you see, you simply are a bad person, as are all other of your ilk and you won't change my mind on that!". I just have no patience for it.
@the state i am in - I intend to respond....
I'm comparing an idea of a type with a reality I've experienced. I think it's a fair way to approach it, because types are just abstractions as @cascadeco says, but this thread is asking what in actuality annoys INFPs. Well, some of what annoys me IS the difference between the perception & the reality. That perception does exist here, because this is the internet. I also wanted to note the connection between the reality & the actual theory, as opposed to the perception. However, that post was also made in a different context, and I mainly quoted it because I'm too lazy to type the same ideas again in a different manner.Bringing up the issue of how INFJs are generally perceived on the internet as opposed to the context right here (especially without stating that fact) just seems like it is someone who got burned on INFJs looking for a dumping ground. It takes away their credibility.
Again, there is a focus on "credibility" of the speaker instead of the actual argument. To me, this sounds like, "I don't like YOU, so I'm not going to listen to you" regardless of whether I'm actually making any valid points. To me, this is childish. It goes back to the "la la la la - I can't hear you!" hand-over-ears reaction.
You're taking what I said out of context & in the wrong way, but I addressed that above. I take the route which has the most potential for response, not with the idea to cause trouble; major difference. The cheekiness is just my sense of humor, but that was lost on INFJs (as it often is online... yes another complaint). I think I'm adding levity to the situation.... but I will try & note that this leads to offense in INFJs online. I say "online" because this is one thing I've had no issue with in person; perhaps tone is lost online.Finally, admitting to being curious as to how the INFJs will react because one is naturally inclined towards stirring the pot seems less mature even than the ENTP pastime of trying different things that they know will be irritating to NFPs just to see how they will react.
I straight out told you my goals.As I'm writing this though, I'm realizing that most of my beefs have to to with the ultimate goal of interaction. If I can't figure out what the other person's intended outcome of a negative exchange is, it frustrates me no end because there is no way to bridge the gap, measure whether the it can be achieved or engage productively. It feels like being forced to walk somewhere unfamiliar with a blind fold on and then have other people upset that you bump into things.
This thread was asking INFP opinions. It wasn't a "ask INFJs questions to better understand them" thread. In posting my opinion, yes, I wanted some responses as to how people view these ideas about Ni and how my outside observation jives with their perspective of themselves. I'm also asking for honest self-scrutiny, instead of defensiveness.If real dialogue is to occur, I think that asking questions about our reasoning and thoughts (which probably seems uncomfortably intrusive and not all that personally useful), rather than making statements about an entire type of people (who are not all exactly the same) to engender discussion would be a better place to start.