User Tag List

First 2969777879808189 Last

Results 781 to 790 of 941

  1. #781
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Being painfully honest, PB, I see you as desperately wanting to be liked. I feel you wanting attention and approval more than anything. I feel that a lot with INFP -- that it wants approval more than anything else. Ok -- taking that a step further, and I'm walking on thin ice, I know, but wth, I can swim -- needing approval a priori puts you one down. Do you see that? If you're waiting for me to see you as equal, you've already put yourself one down to me.

    Please do understand that I bet if we met each other in real life, we would like each other and get along fine -- just talking about my impression/reaction here in writing on this particular subject, and with zero intent to be hurtful.

    Also -- again, I'm cringing because this is brutally honest -- I'm not in the least interested in seeing things as you do. It's not adaptive for me. Just as you find my process objectionable and not adaptive for you -- you prefer your own process. Edit to add: Yes, I know I am right for me. For my own purposes, I am guided by my own light, and I have to stick by that. If you know you are right for you, then we're ok, as long as we don't piss each other off or hurt each other's feelings too drastically. I respect your right to see it however you see it. Sometimes you ask process questions, though, and instead of it being about the process, i.e., where did I go wrong, it seems like you don't really want to hear where you went wrong. You want to hear where you were misjudged in your intent. Or where you understandably didn't adequately process the information that was given to you. Or, in general, that you are ok. That's a different question than "What did i do wrong?" Your question (it seems to me) turns out to actually be "Why did I not experience validation?" So maybe that's the lesson for INFJ -- you people basically see us as not very nice. To the extent we care (and I don't mean that to be flippant, I mean only to be honest), we need to do something about that. Do you think this is true, at the fundament of it all?


    I don't know what we can do about it except to be as kind as possible in our interactions. I don't pretend to logic and i'm not an intellectual, so ... that's all I got.

  2. #782
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post

    What a contentious thread. We've received several reports from several users, and I'm too lazy to handle them on a case-by-case basis right now.

    If you're provoking specific people, stop provoking those people. If someone has requested that you not engage them, don't engage them. If you're in a continual catfight with someone, do not be in that catfight any longer. Conversely, if you're reading personal insults into posts where there is no personal insult, stop that, too.

    I'll be more specific if I wind up having to be, though I hope that I won't have to.

    In general, just be more civil than usual. You're here to try to understand one another, for God's sake.
    You should get involved too. Let your hair down, forget yourself for a time and jump into the abyss. What's wrong with a bit of virtual mud throwing over a sea of zeros and ones anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Being painfully honest, PB, I see you as desperately wanting to be liked. I feel you wanting attention and approval more than anything. I feel that a lot with INFP -- that it wants approval more than anything else.
    INFPs really only want to be liked and receive approval from a few people and in a few areas. They hate invalidation of themselves in regards to areas they value but if they are anything like me, do not really care if they are disliked in regards to factors they don't value. I'm not that concerned when I get called lazy, arrogant or selfish unless its from people I personally care about and I hate being called stupid in regards to subjects and areas I have interest in. I like PB personally and if she's anything like me this "wanting to be liked" is actually "wants to be validated and perceived as someone who has good insights in a topic and area that is enjoyed." Probably just cares about the people who are supposed to validate them on top.

  3. #783
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Ok, yes, Standuble, that's exactly what I see as well. "I am an SO and an INFP and I therefore have standing to believe I am good with people, so why did this interaction not go well?" with the intended meaning actually being "My ego is hurt. Please tell me that I did it right and this person just responded badly."

    and this is what INFJ means as white noise. What you ask for is not really what you want. Believe it or not, if we know what you want, we will likely be very happy to give it to you on a platter with a complimentary glass of champagne. But if we think you're trying to trick it out of us, we balk. Or if we receive the impression you want ego strokes when you say you want to have an intellectual discussion about a point. This to us is a mixed message, and we'll usually go for the objective part of it and "attack" the behavior, because that's the observable part of it. To which INFP objects "but I meant ...." and we'll say "but you said ..." and then after a few rounds of this, we want you to stop talking, because we're not getting the meaning out of what you say -- the words are all in the way.

    It goes the other way 'round, too. INFJ says "Stop doing x thing. It's driving me crazy." INFP hears "Something about x drives her crazy. I'm pretty sure she doesn't mean literally x thing, because I didn't intend any harm by x thing," and keeps on doing x until INFJ explodes in a rage, whereupon INFP retreats in confusion. It's only after repeated requests from INFJ, "Please no more X thing, and when I say X thing, I mean exactly X thing" that INFP finally gets that X thing = no good in INFJ land. Whereupon INFJ is accused of being judgmental, harsh, etc.

    Dunno, that's what I see.

  4. #784
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Ok, yes, Standuble, that's exactly what I see as well. "I am an SO and an INFP and I therefore have standing to believe I am good with people, so why did this interaction not go well?" with the intended meaning actually being "My ego is hurt. Please tell me that I did it right and this person just responded badly."
    This example wasn't what I meant but I do agree with what you mean, it's a line of thought which exists in a number of scenarios and one I seriously doubt is limited to INFPs. However you're making the assertion that it is PBs actual thought process (without proof) despite also making the claim in the below paragraph that you do not understand what INFPs want and thus are not a mind reader.

    and this is what INFJ means as white noise. What you ask for is not really what you want. Believe it or not, if we know what you want, we will likely be very happy to give it to you on a platter with a complimentary glass of champagne. But if we think you're trying to trick it out of us, we balk. Or if we receive the impression you want ego strokes when you say you want to have an intellectual discussion about a point. This to us is a mixed message, and we'll usually go for the objective part of it and "attack" the behavior, because that's the observable part of it. To which INFP objects "but I meant ...." and we'll say "but you said ..." and then after a few rounds of this, we want you to stop talking, because we're not getting the meaning out of what you say -- the words are all in the way.
    What can I say? There's a belief floating around (at least in my observation) that N's hear and perceive what isn't said or directly implied. I would assume that the INFP would believe that as a dominant N type you would be able to make that determination in some capacity and not have to rely on the immediately observable like an S type would and would take this idea for granted. Or is that a treat reserved more for Ne types?
    It's true that INFPs do like ego strokes from time to time but then who doesn't? Also be aware in said communication that there is much that cannot be expressed or quantified in the INFP's feeling and the INFP can do little about it. The image of the implied meaning being different from the stated words is unavoidable. Think of it as the space between letters or words, that space makes all the difference in written communication. For us the spaces are being made against our will, we can't fill them in and thus the implied meaning is different. If that makes sense.

  5. #785
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Makes perfect sense yes.

    Also ... it's an impression I have formed over time, that those are her thought processes. Certainly I may be wrong. But I do see a lot of "pay attention to me and tell me I'm wonderful" or even just "pay attention to me" interspersed with more thoughtful posts. What else is this, for example?

    *peacebabe-ster returns to thread ..................... decides to start den renovations whilst pondering latest developments*

  6. #786
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Right vs wrong is a power play however. It's always been a power play. There's little equity when someone sits in that position over another, and can't see another person's viewpoint as even having validity.
    It's not always a power play from the Fe/Te PoV, though it can be. A Te-dom of my acquaintance would often argue with me about various contentious issues. We'd argue, eventually get down to brass tacks, and he'd note, "Oh, you're assuming that X is true, while I'm assuming Y is true. OK, that makes sense," and the argument would be over. Remember that for Te and Fe, the argument is over an object OUTSIDE of ourselves. I might be pointing at A, and he's pointing at B, but that doesn't mean my ego is attached to A or his is attached to B. A and B are just starting points.

    I suspect it FEELS more like a power play to Fi/Ti, however. Subjective ideas tend to have a lot of ego attached, and Ti and Fi types tend to push back VERY HARD if you approach too close. The picture in my head is of a nice but curious doggy (Je) sniffing at a cat (Fi) and the cat clawing at the doggy's nose just because the doggy got too close. The doggies don't mind each other a bit, though, and they'll bark loudly at each other and sniff at each others' butts until they're both happy.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #787
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    The ego is a hungry beast. It takes a brave crazy person to willfully starve it and let go of a mind-made identity that stays at the core of their existence. Madness.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  8. #788
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    The ego is a hungry beast. It takes a brave crazy person to willfully starve it and let go of a mind-made identity that stays at the core of their existence. Madness.
    Especially if the ego subconsciously seeks to make itself bigger through bragging rights by stating: "I'm so cool I don't need my ego. I can starve it of all its needs and live to tell the tale!"

  9. #789
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Especially if the ego subconsciously seeks to make itself bigger through bragging rights by stating: "I'm so cool I don't need my ego. I can starve it of all its needs and live to tell the tale!"
    The ego can feed on anything, even the idea of it's own destruction.

    @ everyone invested in their points and need for X because it satisfies Y in their identity, and thus preemptively preventing any form of communication that touches on said points, for it would constitute an insurmountable aggression to one's existence i.e. "if I don't defend X, to which I have chosen to attach my identity to, then I will be striking a blow against myself that I do not know how to deal with, for this identification provides me a safe ground and I don't know how to think of myself/exist without it":
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  10. #790
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    I like my ego stroked in private and only by certain people, or yeah, I would rather starve. Not to say that's better at all, just ... if you're poking fun at me (INFJ paranoia or are they really poking fun at me), I cop to that somewhat.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFPs, what do ENFPs do that drives you nuts?
    By Esoteric Wench in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  2. Am I a INTP or a INFP?What do you think?
    By Tish211 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-04-2011, 09:33 PM
  3. [MBTItm] INFPs: What do you admire about ISFJs?
    By Afkan in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-13-2010, 07:40 PM
  4. [INFP] INFPs: What do you look for in friends?
    By DigitalMethod in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 10-08-2008, 11:48 AM
  5. Josh Groban: INFJ? INFP?? What do you think?
    By BookLady in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 09:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO