[NF] INFPs, what do INFJs do that drives you nuts?

[Standuble]

Hey. My mum's an ESFJ too. I suspect. Great people, frustrating sometimes, never stops talking. But good people. I mean they never* stop talking. Never. ... Great people.

But I get what you mean with the guilt tripping, she would parade the whole family on a list of things that she does almost every day, and says "oh I was just saying" whenever someone would question whether she was mad at us or not. She's pretty intellectual though, strong Te I propose.

Anyway, I guess the Fe is smothering in that case, but I don't think that's the case for INFJs at all. And I disagree if you're trying to relate that to INFJs. For example, ENFPs use Fi in a different sense to INFPs, and that's important to know. It's more about the connections in the type processes rather than the individual processes themselves.

I was not working under the belief that both utilise it in the same way. In the post I was referring to Fe. I'm aware that INFJs use it differently.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

IMHO Vicki Jo is an idiot. I've even told her that (which she ignored.) Where in the cognitive functions would INFPs be the essence of being the most judgmental type? If its the Fi-dom (which cares more about judging for and of the self anyway) then we share that equally with ISFP. The person who claimed she was biased was probably correct.

That is my impression also, so I probably should not have brought up her criticism. I have not found her credible.

I am overly defensive in this thread and for this topic, and I'm still analyzing why. I do try to match people's communication styles to help resolve conflict, and I do mirror back to see if people can take what they dish out. That is partly to see if it is in fact a communication style or some type of game or tactic. It helps me know whether I should try to calibrate to that style or just exit the exchange. A number in this thread have described that they communicate both ways in this manner.

As for the outburst against others it is in my experience always been because said person has been either the direct cause or the straw which broke the Camel's back. For the latter this could be some poor sod who spoke to me when I was boiling over and then asked if I was ok or commented on my attitude. Normally if I start I will lash out at anyone who attempts to derail me, think a saucepan on the stove full up to the brim with boiling water. If you try and move it then be aware of the risks because it will hurt if it spills! Leave them alone to chill out unless they want to stir the pot and criticise someone for something.

I also know that possibly every type has stories about sudden outbursts - at least most all the N types, so that isn't necessarily an INFP thing, but I think it contributes to my motivation to push back towards these criticisms. I'm still trying to learn how to resolve conflict with Fi-doms I love, and so far just submitting and apologizing and trying to remain positive has been successful. There have also been two arguments in my life with a Fi person that I went ahead and let myself go, get angry and just say whatever without filter and that worked better than I expected. I'm trying something a little like that here, but with some reassurances because I know there is little or no social trust established.

 

[Glycerine]

These type of threads always amuse me because the theoretical may hold some weight but the reality never seems to quite play out like the theoretical implies. It only really seems to turn into WWIII when there is a lot of stress and and anger mixed into the fold. They rarely if ever seem productive and end up being masochistic in the least. Who the hell needs to get their flaws validated or denied by random strangers? What's the point about arguing about the flaws to these people? It's kinda hilarious.

 

[flameskull95]

I was not working under the belief that both utilise it in the same way. In the post I was referring to Fe. I'm aware that INFJs use it differently.

If you know that they don't both utilize it in the same way, then you couldn't have just been referring to just Fe. Because if you were referring to just Fe, then that would apply to both INFJs and ESFJs (both having Fe).

 

[flameskull95]

Well, I've noticed INFJs to make people comfortable and do that whole mystical approach thing.

But I've noticed recently that a lot of INFJs haven't been "sticking around". I mean, even when I tried to open up to them and when we've established a connection, and after they've understood me to some extent.

This left me a bit confused as to whether or not I've offended them down the tracks after our first encounter and I'm always the one for possibilities so I think about it a lot more than people would think.

 

[PeaceBaby]

What gets these threads going is our intense desire to "GET IT"! Both types kind of pride ourselves on being "people people" and it's almost incredulous that we're so similar yet so different I guess.

We share our thoughts and are surprised both that we seem misunderstood and that we aren't seeing the other's POV. If we're met with confusion or resistance, it confuses us. And then, some emotion will drip in and that can also obfuscate the message. Someone gets annoyed, someone feels hurt and whammo, it starts to disintegrate. INFP's want an emotional message to parse with and that's what the INFJ's tend to need quieted so they can process.

HOWEVER - I know the INFP's and INFJ's both really WANT to get it. We do care about the other. It seems we GET so close too ...

 

[flameskull95]

What gets these threads going is our intense desire to "GET IT"! Both types kind of pride ourselves on being "people people" and it's almost incredulous that we're so similar yet so different I guess.

We share our thoughts and are surprised both that we seem misunderstood and that we aren't seeing the other's POV. If we're met with confusion or resistance, it confuses us. And then, some emotion will drip in and that can also obfuscate the message. Someone gets annoyed, someone feels hurt and whammo, it starts to disintegrate. INFP's want an emotional message to parse with and that's what the INFJ's tend to need quieted so they can process.

HOWEVER - I know the INFP's and INFJ's both really WANT to get it. We do care about the other. It seems we GET so close too ...

yeah I agree. It's like what TypeLogic has to say about the INFJ-INFP interaction; 'complement: compatible strengths but different emphases'.

 

[Standuble]

If you know that they don't both utilize it in the same way, then you couldn't have just been referring to just Fe. Because if you were referring to just Fe, then that would apply to both INFJs and ESFJs (both having Fe).

Ugh, do I really have to sit here and explain the specifics of what I meant?

 

[flameskull95]

Ugh, do I really have to sit here and explain the specifics of what I meant?

You can sit anywhere you like

 

[Standuble]

You can sit anywhere you like

Very well, I shall sit over there next to that glass of whiskey. I apologise for any logical inconsistency in my previous postings, I move the goal posts unconsciously! I do not enjoy making fallacious and contradictory statements. Basically the Fe I referred in my initial postings were about the parts of Fe I tend to see INFJs use but were using it interchangeably. E.g. like a dinner meal where you could only be talking about part yet you refer to it as "the dinner" as if it were the whole thing you were referring to. Like complaining about the dinner being too hot when it is only the meat that is too hot and the vegetables are fine. When talking about the ESFJs I was referring to the whole Fe, the whole shabang which includes what the INFJs do not seem to use or express.

I hope that makes sense (despite the holes in it) as I would not know how else to explain my train of thought.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I've got to say that I find this thread fascinating. It really gets at the heart of how different Fe/Fi worldviews can be while at the same time showing how much INFPs and INFJs have in common. And, as an ENFP, I can watch from the sidelines without having to sully myself in the imbroglio.

I didn't know I could learn so much from watching two other types duke it out. Carry on.

 

[Standuble]

I've got to say that I find this thread fascinating. It really gets at the heart of how different Fe/Fi worldviews can be while at the same time showing how much INFPs and INFJs have in common. And, as an ENFP, I can watch from the sidelines without having to sully myself in the imbroglio.

I didn't know I could learn so much from watching two other types duke it out. Carry on.

You should join in. I've found the MAD slogfest interesting to watch and very entertaining to take part in. My conclusion (on the whole and not just in this thread) is that the Fi is the decimal and Fe is the integer. The integer is a big clunky thing which likes to make itself prominent whilst the decimal is precise and likes to slip through the cracks and quietly undermine your calculations In a number which has both an integer and a decimal, which part is most significant and most defines the bigger picture? But I digress.

 

[SilkRoad]

I digress further, but I have to say it surprises me that Fi is into...well...sh*t-stirring; I wasn't aware of that. Apologies as probably not all of you would say that it is, but there are definitely a few INFPs/Fi users who are suggesting here that they find this to be a profitable way forward.

Wouldn't you worry about hurting others' Fi feelings with the stirring? I may be totally misunderstanding, I don't really get this.

I feel like hurt Fi is more about hurt FEELINGS (more emo...), while hurt Fe is more about offended sensibilities. Roughly/broadly, that is.

It probably comes back to the whole thing about Fe and Fi finding very different things to be offensive, and one function's "joking around" or "trying to have a productive discussion" is terribly offensive to the other function, suddenly.

 

[flameskull95]

I digress further, but I have to say it surprises me that Fi is into...well...sh*t-stirring; I wasn't aware of that. Apologies as probably not all of you would say that it is, but there are definitely a few INFPs/Fi users who are suggesting here that they find this to be a profitable way forward.

Wouldn't you worry about hurting others' Fi feelings with the stirring? I may be totally misunderstanding, I don't really get this.

I feel like hurt Fi is more about hurt FEELINGS (more emo...), while hurt Fe is more about offended sensibilities. Roughly/broadly, that is.

It probably comes back to the whole thing about Fe and Fi finding very different things to be offensive, and one function's "joking around" or "trying to have a productive discussion" is terribly offensive to the other function, suddenly.

I wouldn't blame Fi, I would blame the individuals that made you feel that way.

But I think the case with INFPs is that they may go on an unconscious escapade to tear down something that is seemingly serious or well mannered for some reason I'm not totally sure of. Maybe it's the Fi-Ne.

 

[SilkRoad]

I wouldn't blame Fi, I would blame the individuals that made you feel that way.

But I think the case with INFPs is that they may go on an unconscious escapade to tear down something that is seemingly serious or well mannered for some reason I'm not totally sure of. Maybe it's the Fi-Ne.

I wasn't "blaming" Fi, or individuals; I was asking for information. It wasn't something I picked up nebulously from this thread, a few people actually said that they like "tearing down" or "stirring" or whatever.

But the tearing down of the serious/well-mannered, yeah, I can see that, at times/in some cases at least.

 

[SilkRoad]

What I usually see the INFJ do is simply deny they hurt someone; which is bizarre to me when the evidence is all there. This is less about J, which I don't see myself as fighting, as it is a Pe viewpoint. For a Pe type, to deny something is in front of your face is, well, just denial. That doesn't mean we always give in the proper weight, but we'll acknowledge its existence.

I was rereading this thread, and I did want to pick up on this.

I'm not sure if I speak here for most INFJs or not. But I would say, I am extremely aware of when I've hurt someone (though more IRL than online, probably.) I sometimes worry that I've done so even if it turns out I haven't, and if I really have I tend to beat myself up over it for a very long time.

It would, however, be correct to say that I sometimes (very rarely) reach a stage with someone where I hurt them, and know I'm doing it (or even do it deliberately) and just don't care. Because the relationship has degenerated at that point (and there may be fault on both sides) to a point where I have built such an emotional wall/distance that I can hurt someone and really not feel bothered over it, possibly even feel that justice is being done.

I'm not saying the above is good, but I am saying that it's a clarification of your contention.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I was rereading this thread, and I did want to pick up on this.

I'm not sure if I speak here for most INFJs or not. But I would say, I am extremely aware of when I've hurt someone (though more IRL than online, probably.) I sometimes worry that I've done so even if it turns out I haven't, and if I really have I tend to beat myself up over it for a very long time.

It would, however, be correct to say that I sometimes (very rarely) reach a stage with someone where I hurt them, and know I'm doing it (or even do it deliberately) and just don't care. Because the relationship has degenerated at that point (and there may be fault on both sides) to a point where I have built such an emotional wall/distance that I can hurt someone and really not feel bothered over it, possibly even feel that justice is being done.

I'm not saying the above is good, but I am saying that it's a clarification of your contention.

I relate to this and feel anxiety about the possibility of having hurt someone until I can find a way to resolve it. If I overlook it, then it feels like a pretty big failing. This thread has made me uneasy for the same reasons, especially when people call it a slugfest because that isn't how I understood it. Strangely I will often tend to hide if someone has hurt me because the main goal is resolving conflict and so I try to decompress the situation by remaining calm irl - so the body language plays an important role in the communication.

 

[SilkRoad]

I relate to this and feel anxiety about the possibility of having hurt someone until I can find a way to resolve it. If I overlook it, then it feels like a pretty big failing. This thread has made me uneasy for the same reasons, especially when people call it a slugfest because that isn't how I understood it. Strangely I will often tend to hide if someone has hurt me because the main goal is resolving conflict and so I try to decompress the situation by remaining calm irl - so the body language plays an important role in the communication.

Yes, this too. Definitely relate to the "hiding" part if someone has hurt me.

I wonder if my thing about occasionally getting to the point of not caring if I've hurt someone (rarely, like I said) looks to another type like "not wanting to acknowledge" that I've done it. I don't know.

But you are more likely to hear "I don't care if I hurt her" from me than "no, I absolutely did not hurt her." How am I supposed to know for sure if I hurt her or not, unless she tells me, and then I wouldn't deny it...


EDIT: I genuinely feel like I have a nasty streak that I wish I didn't have. And I haven't yet resolved that in myself. I wonder how many INFPs would admit to having a nasty streak.

 

[Eilonwy]

I can relate to what both [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7063]SilkRoad[/MENTION] have said about hurting someone.

 

[flameskull95]

I wasn't "blaming" Fi, or individuals; I was asking for information. It wasn't something I picked up nebulously from this thread, a few people actually said that they like "tearing down" or "stirring" or whatever.

But the tearing down of the serious/well-mannered, yeah, I can see that, at times/in some cases at least.

It's actually pretty funny (in my own weird mind), I think this is more of a general difference between Ps and Js. Js prefer the stable, while Ps wouldn't mind to sacrifice the stable. And it could also be us INFPs overdoing the 'expression' thing because we aren't used to having such capacity to talk outside, then we do online. We usually never play "games" with people outside in real life. It's much too risky for our fragile little minds to cope with.

And i really didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I came off like that. I guess a lot of people I've met tend to blame a certain function for the way other people are, when it's probably just a subjective thing. And then I project myself in response and then end up having to say sorry. But seriously, functions have feelings too ! ...

I wonder how many INFPs would admit to having a nasty streak.

I found this mildly offensive. Especially since this may suggest that people must not pay attention to my tag . Or whatever you call that thing below this writing.