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  1. #201
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm saying its the repeating pattern within the accusations made in this thread, the underlining demand of the harshest accusations and the element relationship of the softer ones. i tried taking my experience out of it, which is not to say i was necessary successful (i am human and my biases of personal experience are there, and there's my little baby Si).

    if your asking about my personal experience, which perhaps is useful as a disclaimer for potential biases, then no, with a confirmed exwife INFJ, confirmed existing INFJ buddy, unconfirmed INFJ highschool friend, and some of the people and friends i've made here...

    then no, i have never seen an INFJ express remorse.

    in fact, it is the only MBTI type who i have never seen express remorse.
    Do you see remorse expressed by INFJs in this thread and on this forum? It is definitely present if you read the posts. I'm just wondering whether or not you see it in this context? I also wonder if anyone else who has experienced a lack of remorse from INFJs irl can read it here online.

    I guess it comes down to whether there are INFJs who do not express remorse, or if the way they communicate their remorse does not register somehow - or a combination of both from the general category called INFJ.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Do you see remorse expressed by INFJs in this thread and on this forum?
    no, no i can't. can you be more specific? link up examples?

    i am genuinely curious now to find out whats underlining this phenomena.

  3. #203
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I had an ISTJ aunt who had trouble regulating her negative emotions and so they would build up and she would berate people at times. She also had a golden, generous heart and was always saving up every penny to give to someone in need. After her berating episodes, she was never able to say "I'm sorry", but would express a changed mood and may say something very subtle that implied remorse. Some could feel her remorse and her subtle way of expressing it, but some could not and thought badly of her. I would suspect that I--Js could have some trouble expressing certain emotions, but that doesn't mean they don't feel it. It can require recalibration of communication, although from my understanding it is the INFJ who tends to work harder towards recalibration of communication than most and so it would seem they could typically convey remorse clearly.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #204
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    no, no i can't. can you be more specific? link up examples?

    i am genuinely curious now to find out whats underlining this phenomena.
    I'll need more time since this is such a long thread, but I know fidelia and I were pretty explicit in stating faults and expressing remorse. I stated that I regretted responding to the thread since it was supposed to be for INFPs, but then it seemed like the ship had sailed and there was a possibility of something constructive coming out of it. When I responded to OA list of negative INFJ qualities, I was putting myself way out there to try to operate in INFP territory by expressing my flaws and addressing her list with my analysis and taking it seriously and with respect, even though earlier I had expressed that I found that approach hurtful. I expressed all types of remorse from my life.

    Even the fact that the INFJs are trying to sort out the confusion of the thread and trying to work out understanding and resolution is an expression of remorse for the fact that such a conflict has ensued.

    I suppose now is as good a time as any to just say that I absolutely feel remorse for any frustration of negativity I have contributed to this discussion or any other on the forum. I feel remorse for every time I have caused people pain in my life, and noted earlier that this has tended to happen when I experience depression because the overwhelm of emotion results in a more self-centered mindset that cannot operate with a meaningful level of empathy.

    Edit: Other INFJs can give input (and I may start a thread about remorse), but my understanding is that the verbal expression of remorse can vary widely with INFJs, but that there is a tendency to express remorse by attempting to correct the problem. I would think that Fe would tend to be about action and external expression.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I had an ISTJ aunt who had trouble regulating her negative emotions and so they would build up and she would berate people at times. She also had a golden, generous heart and was always saving up every penny to give to someone in need. After her berating episodes, she was never able to say "I'm sorry", but would express a changed mood and may say something very subtle that implied remorse. Some could feel her remorse and her subtle way of expressing it, but some could not and thought badly of her. I would suspect that I--Js could have some trouble expressing certain emotions, but that doesn't mean they don't feel it. It can require recalibration of communication, although from my understanding it is the INFJ who tends to work harder towards recalibration of communication than most and so it would seem they could typically convey remorse clearly.
    maybe i wasn't clear - i have never seen an INFJ do this:

    "the ability to see one's self in a larger story, to admit for unintended consequences our actions and behaviors have on another, to have a sense of proportions and thus grasp disproportional responses when the actions were intended, to acknowledge the pain of another when we are it's cause, to place our ego aside, to admit our fault and question our believes about ourselves and put them aside to acknowledge a reality that isn't flattering at all, but is still better to measure ourselves by because it is a larger world with many subjective worlds within it. we give up a lot of our ideals when we allow ourselves to experience remorse, it makes us feel like shit, but we accept it and , because we're not doing it to make ourselves feel good, we're doing it for someone else, though we do gain the benefit through personal growth and the ability to conduct healthier relationships with others."

  6. #206
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    maybe i wasn't clear - i have never seen an INFJ do this:

    "the ability to see one's self in a larger story, to admit for unintended consequences our actions and behaviors have on another, to have a sense of proportions and thus grasp disproportional responses when the actions were intended, to acknowledge the pain of another when we are it's cause, to place our ego aside, to admit our fault and question our believes about ourselves and put them aside to acknowledge a reality that isn't flattering at all, but is still better to measure ourselves by because it is a larger world with many subjective worlds within it. we give up a lot of our ideals when we allow ourselves to experience remorse, it makes us feel like shit, but we accept it and , because we're not doing it to make ourselves feel good, we're doing it for someone else, though we do gain the benefit through personal growth and the ability to conduct healthier relationships with others."
    Yea. Its always said that NFs are selfless while NTs are ruthless. I generally experience those roles are switched. But maybe I am just too sensitive.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #207
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    maybe i wasn't clear - i have never seen an INFJ do this:

    "the ability to see one's self in a larger story, to admit for unintended consequences our actions and behaviors have on another, to have a sense of proportions and thus grasp disproportional responses when the actions were intended, to acknowledge the pain of another when we are it's cause, to place our ego aside, to admit our fault and question our believes about ourselves and put them aside to acknowledge a reality that isn't flattering at all, but is still better to measure ourselves by because it is a larger world with many subjective worlds within it. we give up a lot of our ideals when we allow ourselves to experience remorse, it makes us feel like shit, but we accept it and , because we're not doing it to make ourselves feel good, we're doing it for someone else, though we do gain the benefit through personal growth and the ability to conduct healthier relationships with others."
    I have certainly seen all types of NFs, including INFJs, do this, and have seen it here on the forums and in this thread. I have seen this very thing quite a bit back when I was on the INFJ forums and it impressed me the rigorous honesty and analysis of some of the posters. The INFJs I know here do exactly what you describe, and I know this from interacting on various levels with them.

    I have had NFs apologize to me on the forums privately, and occasionally an NT, but not as often. On one hand I don't expect people to always express remorse. I think it is okay in many circumstances if they cannot. It is okay to accept people who even have this limitation. It is often because crossing that line is too painful for them, and they may not be ready. A gentle, patient approach is necessary for some, and a simply non-judgmental approach without expectation is necessary for others.

    It is especially difficult for people to break out of their expectations of others, especially when these are negative. It takes a lot of humility to realize that someone has expressed remorse when we are certain they have not.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yea. Its always said that NFs are selfless while NTs are ruthless. I generally experience those roles are switched. But maybe I am just too sensitive.
    i dont know if it can be stated about all NFs, i've seen xNFPs and suspected ENFJs do all of those... as for all NTs, SPs and SJs. INFJs are the only type who i have never witnessed any sign of experiencing remorse.

  9. #209
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i dont know if it can be stated about all NFs, i've seen xNFPs and suspected ENFJs do all of those... as for all NTs, SPs and SJs. INFJs are the only type who i have never witnessed any sign of experiencing remorse.
    Are you saying that I have not expressed remorse?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    It is especially difficult for people to break out of their expectations of others, especially when these are negative. It takes a lot of humility to realize that someone has expressed remorse when we are certain they have not.
    yeah, "only smart men can see the king's new clothes". sarcasm regarding pre-framing aside, i believe that this is all in all likely that they do, it's even possible that the problem is in the communication line. i just think that this is the common thread combining and summarizing all the complaints made about INFJs, from soft to harsh, from the story of the domineering INFJ up all the way to OAs post, it links everything together.

    and if you are wondering my reason for butting in, despite sociologically seeming like a terrible idea given past interactions: I WANT TO SEE IT. it would in fact mean a great deal for me.

    so please, any specific examples of an INFJ showing remorse...

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