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  1. #191
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    I don't think so, because it has a statistical backup to it. Like, a lot of people were analysed. Maybe that's not enough, but all conclusions in science are done like that, so it's good enough for me. Also, Kinsey also analysed a lot of people before coming up with the 1-5 types of sexuality, so I also "trust" him, so to speak. Is that enough for you or...? I don't understand why it must have a practical application in order to be "true"!?!?


    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Does MBTI even have a practical application? Isn't the whole theory pseudo-scientific, unfalsifiable pop psychology?

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Is this tl;dr thread still raging on? One annoying thing about INFJs is that they don't seem to know when to give up. Don't you have some grand vision to implement somewhere or something instead? I'm willing to bet money that literally every point has been covered in all this. Plus you cannot beat us INFPs unless we choose to let you win, our heels dig in WWI style and you're left fighting us by throwing grenades cross No Man's Land for years. Logic does not permeate our defense systems. Perhaps if you went all out, guns blazing without the Fe you may get somewhere but that doesn't appear to be happening.
    The juxtaposition and inconsistency between these two bolded items is super lol.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The juxtaposition and inconsistency between these two bolded items is super lol.
    I took it to mean this: vs.
    Who will win? That's the question.

  4. #194
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    and the answer to the unasked question is: remorse.
    Maybe you should let us know what the unasked question is, and what you mean about "remorse."
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  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The juxtaposition and inconsistency between these two bolded items is super lol.
    Good to see you liked it. I am not 100% sure though on which part are you referring to as inconsistent either. What is wrong with the bolded items oh enlightened one?

    I was implying that we cannot be defeated in open combat yet the opposition refuses to concede and continues to fight. A futile struggle. I refuse to think that I am the only INFP who excels at both circular reasoning and an inability to spot well-reasoned arguments. In the spirit of the person who first chimed "ignorance is bliss" I declare the above a truly great strength, an impregnable shield and a brutal sword. There is after all no way to knock us out of the conflict save for power cuts or mass bans so really it comes down to the point where we stop arguing because we are bored and want to do something else.

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    I don't think so, because it has a statistical backup to it. Like, a lot of people were analysed. Maybe that's not enough, but all conclusions in science are done like that, so it's good enough for me. Also, Kinsey also analysed a lot of people before coming up with the 1-5 types of sexuality, so I also "trust" him, so to speak. Is that enough for you or...? I don't understand why it must have a practical application in order to be "true"!?!?
    I never made the assertion that it must have a practical application to be true anywhere...at all...

  7. #197
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Im sorry. I know how frustrating it is when people misinterpret my ideas....i got that impression from your first sentence.... whatever.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I never made the assertion that it must have a practical application to be true anywhere...at all...

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Maybe you should let us know what the unasked question is, and what you mean about "remorse."
    i sort of hoped my anecdote about my own interaction with the Fi user who had issues with ENTPs due to the people in her life would make for a less condescending and more gentle variation of doing just that, but i'll give this a shot:

    basically, the constant question being asked by INFJs feeling on trial here (for behaviors other INFJs expressed) is:
    "what the fuck do they want from us?"
    and it's a good question, an excellent question.

    the pattern underlining most (if not all - just in case i missed something) of the complaints is that the INFJs in the various lives of the INFPs here are complaining about, can be summed up in one belief:

    the belief that those INFJs weren't capable of experiencing remorse.

    for the most part, the blame is towards actions that the people here feel the INFJ should have expressed remorse for but didn't and showed no sign of experiencing it. but the break down is elemental, blaming INFJs for being unable to do some of the basic components of remorse.

    remorse sums it up rather well: it demands the ability to see one's self in a larger story, to admit for unintended consequences our actions and behaviors have on another, to have a sense of proportions and thus grasp disproportional responses when the actions were intended, to acknowledge the pain of another when we are it's cause, to place our ego aside, to admit our fault and question our believes about ourselves and put them aside to acknowledge a reality that isn't flattering at all, but is still better to measure ourselves by because it is a larger world with many subjective worlds within it. we give up a lot of our ideals when we allow ourselves to experience remorse, it makes us feel like shit, but we accept it and , because we're not doing it to make ourselves feel good, we're doing it for someone else, though we do gain the benefit through personal growth and the ability to conduct healthier relationships with others.

    remorse is an amazingly complicated notion in what it demands, and amazingly in it's simplicity in what it enacts.

    if the accusations flying around here where a solar system, remorse makes for a good sun. even far reaching examples such as "the domineering INFJ" still revolve around that sun - that INFJ is probably living within a subjective reality in which he just believes he has really good advise and that people are better off listening to him, not able to step aside and see himself in the dynamic it generates, thus not being able to see the perspective and the experience of the one who complained. it all builds up from various elements of remorse.

    so, how the fuck do they expect you to show remorse for something someone else did?

    they don't, nobody's expecting that you'll experience remorse for the actions of others because they are somewhat like you. they are expressing an underlining suspicion and stating in dozen different wordings that INFJs can't do so at all, in words that are slightly less blunt. they expect you to prove them wrong. and when someone says you can't do something, the easiest way to prove them wrong is to do it.

    you can't experience remorse for something others did, so show your remorse for things you can.

  9. #199
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i sort of hoped my anecdote about my own interaction with the Fi user who had issues with ENTPs due to the people in her life would make for a less condescending and more gentle variation of doing just that, but i'll give this a shot:

    basically, the constant question being asked by INFJs feeling on trial here (for behaviors other INFJs expressed) is:
    "what the fuck do they want from us?"
    and it's a good question, an excellent question.

    the pattern underlining most (if not all - just in case i missed something) of the complaints is that the INFJs in the various lives of the INFPs here are complaining about, can be summed up in one belief:

    the belief that those INFJs weren't capable of experiencing remorse.

    for the most part, the blame is towards actions that the people here feel the INFJ should have expressed remorse for but didn't and showed no sign of experiencing it. but the break down is elemental, blaming INFJs for being unable to do some of the basic components of remorse.

    remorse sums it up rather well: it demands the ability to see one's self in a larger story, to admit for unintended consequences our actions and behaviors have on another, to have a sense of proportions and thus grasp disproportional responses when the actions were intended, to acknowledge the pain of another when we are it's cause, to place our ego aside, to admit our fault and question our believes about ourselves and put them aside to acknowledge a reality that isn't flattering at all, but is still better to measure ourselves by because it is a larger world with many subjective worlds within it. we give up a lot of our ideals when we allow ourselves to experience remorse, it makes us feel like shit, but we accept it and , because we're not doing it to make ourselves feel good, we're doing it for someone else, though we do gain the benefit through personal growth and the ability to conduct healthier relationships with others.

    remorse is an amazingly complicated notion in what it demands, and amazingly in it's simplicity in what it enacts.

    if the accusations flying around here where a solar system, remorse makes for a good sun. even far reaching examples such as "the domineering INFJ" still revolve around that sun - that INFJ is probably living within a subjective reality in which he just believes he has really good advise and that people are better off listening to him, not able to step aside and see himself in the dynamic it generates, thus not being able to see the perspective and the experience of the one who complained. it all builds up from various elements of remorse.

    so, how the fuck do they expect you to show remorse for something someone else did?

    they don't, nobody's expecting that you'll experience remorse for the actions of others because they are somewhat like you. they are expressing an underlining suspicion and stating in dozen different wordings that INFJs can't do so at all, in words that are slightly less blunt. they expect you to prove them wrong. and when someone says you can't do something, the easiest way to prove them wrong is to do it.

    you can't experience remorse for something others did, so show your remorse for things you can.
    Ok.. So are you saying that in your experience and in that of most people, INFJs don't show remorse? Or indeed, aren't remorseful at all?

    I just don't relate to that at all. I've generally been told that I apologise too much, rather than not at all..

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Ok.. So are you saying that in your experience and in that of most people, INFJs don't show remorse? Or indeed, aren't remorseful at all?

    I just don't relate to that at all. I've generally been told that I apologise too much, rather than not at all..
    i'm saying its the repeating pattern within the accusations made in this thread, the underlining demand of the harshest accusations and the element relationship of the softer ones. i tried taking my experience out of it, which is not to say i was necessary successful (i am human and my biases of personal experience are there, and there's my little baby Si).

    if your asking about my personal experience, which perhaps is useful as a disclaimer for potential biases, then no, with a confirmed exwife INFJ, confirmed existing INFJ buddy, unconfirmed INFJ highschool friend, and some of the people and friends i've made here...

    then no, i have never seen an INFJ express remorse.

    in fact, it is the only MBTI type who i have never seen express remorse.

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