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  1. #111
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I've got to say that I find this thread fascinating. It really gets at the heart of how different Fe/Fi worldviews can be while at the same time showing how much INFPs and INFJs have in common. And, as an ENFP, I can watch from the sidelines without having to sully myself in the imbroglio.

    I didn't know I could learn so much from watching two other types duke it out. Carry on.

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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I've got to say that I find this thread fascinating. It really gets at the heart of how different Fe/Fi worldviews can be while at the same time showing how much INFPs and INFJs have in common. And, as an ENFP, I can watch from the sidelines without having to sully myself in the imbroglio.

    I didn't know I could learn so much from watching two other types duke it out. Carry on.

    You should join in. I've found the MAD slogfest interesting to watch and very entertaining to take part in. My conclusion (on the whole and not just in this thread) is that the Fi is the decimal and Fe is the integer. The integer is a big clunky thing which likes to make itself prominent whilst the decimal is precise and likes to slip through the cracks and quietly undermine your calculations In a number which has both an integer and a decimal, which part is most significant and most defines the bigger picture? But I digress.

  3. #113
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I digress further, but I have to say it surprises me that Fi is into...well...sh*t-stirring; I wasn't aware of that. Apologies as probably not all of you would say that it is, but there are definitely a few INFPs/Fi users who are suggesting here that they find this to be a profitable way forward.

    Wouldn't you worry about hurting others' Fi feelings with the stirring? I may be totally misunderstanding, I don't really get this.

    I feel like hurt Fi is more about hurt FEELINGS (more emo...), while hurt Fe is more about offended sensibilities. Roughly/broadly, that is.

    It probably comes back to the whole thing about Fe and Fi finding very different things to be offensive, and one function's "joking around" or "trying to have a productive discussion" is terribly offensive to the other function, suddenly.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I digress further, but I have to say it surprises me that Fi is into...well...sh*t-stirring; I wasn't aware of that. Apologies as probably not all of you would say that it is, but there are definitely a few INFPs/Fi users who are suggesting here that they find this to be a profitable way forward.

    Wouldn't you worry about hurting others' Fi feelings with the stirring? I may be totally misunderstanding, I don't really get this.

    I feel like hurt Fi is more about hurt FEELINGS (more emo...), while hurt Fe is more about offended sensibilities. Roughly/broadly, that is.

    It probably comes back to the whole thing about Fe and Fi finding very different things to be offensive, and one function's "joking around" or "trying to have a productive discussion" is terribly offensive to the other function, suddenly.
    I wouldn't blame Fi, I would blame the individuals that made you feel that way.

    But I think the case with INFPs is that they may go on an unconscious escapade to tear down something that is seemingly serious or well mannered for some reason I'm not totally sure of. Maybe it's the Fi-Ne.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

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  5. #115
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    I wouldn't blame Fi, I would blame the individuals that made you feel that way.

    But I think the case with INFPs is that they may go on an unconscious escapade to tear down something that is seemingly serious or well mannered for some reason I'm not totally sure of. Maybe it's the Fi-Ne.
    I wasn't "blaming" Fi, or individuals; I was asking for information. It wasn't something I picked up nebulously from this thread, a few people actually said that they like "tearing down" or "stirring" or whatever.

    But the tearing down of the serious/well-mannered, yeah, I can see that, at times/in some cases at least.
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  6. #116
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    What I usually see the INFJ do is simply deny they hurt someone; which is bizarre to me when the evidence is all there. This is less about J, which I don't see myself as fighting, as it is a Pe viewpoint. For a Pe type, to deny something is in front of your face is, well, just denial. That doesn't mean we always give in the proper weight, but we'll acknowledge its existence.
    I was rereading this thread, and I did want to pick up on this.

    I'm not sure if I speak here for most INFJs or not. But I would say, I am extremely aware of when I've hurt someone (though more IRL than online, probably.) I sometimes worry that I've done so even if it turns out I haven't, and if I really have I tend to beat myself up over it for a very long time.

    It would, however, be correct to say that I sometimes (very rarely) reach a stage with someone where I hurt them, and know I'm doing it (or even do it deliberately) and just don't care. Because the relationship has degenerated at that point (and there may be fault on both sides) to a point where I have built such an emotional wall/distance that I can hurt someone and really not feel bothered over it, possibly even feel that justice is being done.

    I'm not saying the above is good, but I am saying that it's a clarification of your contention.
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  7. #117
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I was rereading this thread, and I did want to pick up on this.

    I'm not sure if I speak here for most INFJs or not. But I would say, I am extremely aware of when I've hurt someone (though more IRL than online, probably.) I sometimes worry that I've done so even if it turns out I haven't, and if I really have I tend to beat myself up over it for a very long time.

    It would, however, be correct to say that I sometimes (very rarely) reach a stage with someone where I hurt them, and know I'm doing it (or even do it deliberately) and just don't care. Because the relationship has degenerated at that point (and there may be fault on both sides) to a point where I have built such an emotional wall/distance that I can hurt someone and really not feel bothered over it, possibly even feel that justice is being done.

    I'm not saying the above is good, but I am saying that it's a clarification of your contention.
    I relate to this and feel anxiety about the possibility of having hurt someone until I can find a way to resolve it. If I overlook it, then it feels like a pretty big failing. This thread has made me uneasy for the same reasons, especially when people call it a slugfest because that isn't how I understood it. Strangely I will often tend to hide if someone has hurt me because the main goal is resolving conflict and so I try to decompress the situation by remaining calm irl - so the body language plays an important role in the communication.
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  8. #118
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I relate to this and feel anxiety about the possibility of having hurt someone until I can find a way to resolve it. If I overlook it, then it feels like a pretty big failing. This thread has made me uneasy for the same reasons, especially when people call it a slugfest because that isn't how I understood it. Strangely I will often tend to hide if someone has hurt me because the main goal is resolving conflict and so I try to decompress the situation by remaining calm irl - so the body language plays an important role in the communication.
    Yes, this too. Definitely relate to the "hiding" part if someone has hurt me.

    I wonder if my thing about occasionally getting to the point of not caring if I've hurt someone (rarely, like I said) looks to another type like "not wanting to acknowledge" that I've done it. I don't know.

    But you are more likely to hear "I don't care if I hurt her" from me than "no, I absolutely did not hurt her." How am I supposed to know for sure if I hurt her or not, unless she tells me, and then I wouldn't deny it...


    EDIT: I genuinely feel like I have a nasty streak that I wish I didn't have. And I haven't yet resolved that in myself. I wonder how many INFPs would admit to having a nasty streak.
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  9. #119
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I can relate to what both @fia and @SilkRoad have said about hurting someone.
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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  10. #120
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I wasn't "blaming" Fi, or individuals; I was asking for information. It wasn't something I picked up nebulously from this thread, a few people actually said that they like "tearing down" or "stirring" or whatever.

    But the tearing down of the serious/well-mannered, yeah, I can see that, at times/in some cases at least.
    It's actually pretty funny (in my own weird mind), I think this is more of a general difference between Ps and Js. Js prefer the stable, while Ps wouldn't mind to sacrifice the stable. And it could also be us INFPs overdoing the 'expression' thing because we aren't used to having such capacity to talk outside, then we do online. We usually never play "games" with people outside in real life. It's much too risky for our fragile little minds to cope with.

    And i really didn't mean to offend. I'm sorry if I came off like that. I guess a lot of people I've met tend to blame a certain function for the way other people are, when it's probably just a subjective thing. And then I project myself in response and then end up having to say sorry. But seriously, functions have feelings too ! ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I wonder how many INFPs would admit to having a nasty streak.
    I found this mildly offensive. Especially since this may suggest that people must not pay attention to my tag . Or whatever you call that thing below this writing.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

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