[NF] INFP vs. INFJ

[cascadeco]

I have a great deal of certitude about not wanting any certitude, if that makes any sense. I just feel all certainty should be provisional. The world is just too subjective a place for me to impose my value judgments on anyone or for anyone else to be imposing their value judgments on me.

Makes complete sense to me!

 

[Cypocalypse]

As an INTP myself, I'm really confused with the INFJ/INFP dichotomy.

The INFJ follows a strong conformity to social protocol / social harmony (Fe-which is a very non egotistic function), and yet these people have a decisive J function.

On the other hand, the INFP has a strong inner values (Fi -- a self centered cognitive process), but the judgment is diminished, because of a strong P function.

In an INTJ, the Fe can act as the empathic function. In an INFP, the P/Ne axis does the same thing.

Chances are, if I talk to any of the two, both of them will listen to me. Being intuitives themselves, they know where my viewpoint will be coming. But seriously, it won't be easy for me to recognize one from the other.

 

[Nadir]

As an INTP myself, I'm really confused with the INFJ/INFP dichotomy.

The INFJ follows a strong conformity to social protocol / social harmony (Fe-which is a very non egotistic function), and yet these people have a decisive J function.

On the other hand, the INFP has a strong inner values (Fi -- a self centered cognitive process), but the judgment is diminished, because of a strong P function.

There's a saying that sprang into my mind upon reading this -- "Don't judge a book by its cover." Now, I'm not saying that you're doing it... but you should note that it's exactly what MBTI advocates when it comes to the P and the J -- to judge books by their covers. Because the J and the P as dictated by the eight introverted MBTI types is based on what the introverted type in question externalizes, by necessity the secondary function, not the primary: it is only the cover that one sees.

And yet... that alone does not mean that the contents are "diminished", as in the case of INFP's J or INFJ's P. It's the opposite -- if we continue to run with the book analogy... what would you say is of more importance -- the cover of a book, or a contents of the book? So, in my humble opinion -- the letters P and J are not very useful -- and they should not lead you towards such assumptions.

Why does MBTI do it? For the sake of symmetry and consistency at the expense of clarity and precision: Extraverted types have less issues with the P and J distinctions, being that their P and J functions are their primary, externalized, extraverted functions. Not so with introverts, because introverts' primary function is introverted, and can not be displayed within the four letter type code. So it becomes the case that introverted types' P and J codes become covers, displaying their secondary functions... so it is, in reality, the J (Fe) of an INFJ and the P (Ne) of an INFP that are diminished.

 

[wedekit]

I wouldn't even know where to start describing an INFP; I'm just going to state my observations of them. I currently am working on a HUGE project (Fall Staff Training) with two INFPs. They both have tested as INFP through the actual MBTI. The one major difference I see between them and me is that when I leave a meeting where we brainstormed and agreed on a lot of ideas, I actually intend on following through with them. They prefer to not decide on anything and to "keep thinking about it", which they don't do. They just don't want to make a decision. I have to coerce them into making decisions on a frequent basis. I might seem strange for me to just come up and say this, but I think that both of them hate making decisions because they think a better idea will come to them on a later date. I feel like I am in the game trying to get stuff done and they are on the sidelines looking very unsure about EVERYTHING. Sometimes when I ask them to make a decision, they break eye contact with me and look around and pretend like they didn't hear me or that they are thinking when I know they have already made their decision: "I don't know".

Don't get me wrong, we have worked together as RAs in our Residence Hall for a year and all three of us are very good friends. I'm just learning first hand that we don't work well together on long-term projects, lol. I should stop a moment and mention that they have provided a good deal of creative ideas towards staff training as a whole, but that's it: ideas, not work.

If you didn't detect it, this post was a combination of an answer and some venting on one aspect of the INFP from an INFJ perspective.

 

[nolla]

The one major difference I see between them and me is that when I leave a meeting where we brainstormed and agreed on a lot of ideas, I actually intend on following through with them. They prefer to not decide on anything and to "keep thinking about it", which they don't do. They just don't want to make a decision.

True.

It takes an effort for me to make decisions. The only way for me to get any work done is to

1) Define the place for work for myself clearly. I can't get work done at home. Even if a workplace is too relaxed, I cant work.

2) Set a deadline. Quite simple, if I don't have it, nothing ever gets finished.

I think you should be the leader. The INFPs probably wont, and they need that someone sets the concrete objectives and deadlines for them, but only after you have all discussed the best ways to do it. Don't worry about upsetting them. I would gladly let someone else to make decisions for me.

 

[heart]

INFJ in my experience drag their feet on decision, until it is forced by external forces and it is a freaking crisis and then they make a decision that they cling to with all the tenacity as if their whole life depended on not changing plans. Like their whole sense of self will be threatened if they change part of the plans and fret like mad if forced to change plans.

I usually delay a decision until Te can engage, answers and decisions seem to come from nowhere at times, like coming from subconscious and then I alter the plans as needed as time goes on.

To get work done, I usually give it up and then from nowhere the will comes and I find myself doing what needs to be done. Failing this, I have to Te checklist things. If other people try to force me to do things on their time table, very exhausting. I loathe having decisions forced on me or made for me by people. I don't want to lead and I don't want to be led, I want to be left alone to do my own thing.

 

[cafe]

INFJ in my experience drag their feet on decision, until it is forced by external forces and it is a freaking crisis and then they make a decision that they cling to with all the tenacity as if their whole life depended on not changing plans.

I usually delay a decision until Te can engage, answers and decisions seem to come from nowhere at times, like subconscious and then I alter the plans as time goes on.

My INTP husband used to do a similar thing to what you are describing with decisions. It was excruciating, like watching a train wreck in slo-mo with no way to stop it.

I always try to collect what data I can and make a decision before circumstances dictate my decision for me. It's not like I can't tweak it later and often times any decision is better than no decision. I'm also a big fan of improvisation and plan B, C, D, etc. If something can go wrong, it will, but that doesn't mean you can't land on your feet.

 

[helen]

INFPs are better drivers, INFJs better housekeepers.

Heh, don't know what that is based on but in my experience it is very accurate. My best friend is an INFP. She is a much better driver than me, but I believe I am a better housekeeper. I don't think this has anything to do with ability, it's just messy kitchens do bother me, but they don't seem to bother her. *shrugs* Driving can make me nervous, although I'm much more comfortable with it than I was, still if we go someplace together she is generally the one that drives.

 

[heart]

...I believe I am a better housekeeper. I don't think this has anything to do with ability, it's just messy kitchens do bother me, but they don't seem to bother her. *shrugs* ...

I don't mind clutter at all, but I hate filth or cross contamination in kitchens, mostly because I don't want to be sick (or make others sick) and the rationality of trying to prevent food poisioning makes good sense to me. I can see the reason for being careful. If I can see a reason for something, then I can self motivate to do it.

I have a lot of clutter around my house and paperwork messiness issues, but the kitchen and bathroom need to be basically sanitary.

I knew a J type (not a INFJ) who kept a sparkling clean kitchen, wiped everything down with the same spounge, raw meat juice, dishes, table, etc. never sterlizing it. Drove me nuts.

 

[helen]

I knew a J type (not a INFJ) who kept a sparkling clean kitchen, wiped everything down with the same spounge, raw meat juice, dishes, table, etc. never sterlizing it. Drove me nuts.

Eww.

Cleanliness and sanitation are I guess more important to me than neatness, but neatness is high on the priority list too. One thing I've noticed about myself, is I like my outer world to reflect my inner world. So my room is messy or neat in proportion to the chaos or clarity of my thoughtscape. When I make a big decision, one of my first instincts in consequence is to start straightening my house. While I'm in the process of decision making, I can tolerate more clutter.

Dunno if this is normal for an INFJ or just neuroticness on my part, but it's something my INFP friend says she can't relate to at all.

P.S. Is that Emma Peel in your avatar?

 

[heart]

Avatar was Victoria Winters played by Alexandra Moltke.

If I have a big decision to make, I introvert on it or spend a lot of time listening to music and reading light materials and allow decision to float to surface or do a Te checklist of pros and cons.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I have always had trouble working out decisions. When I go to a restaurant, I like to order last in case something else sounds better. Where should we go? Any place is fine. I don't tend to be terribly particular about what is going on externally. This is in part because I can create a lot of the experience from inside myself.

When there is a pressing situation, I can go with the option that appears to have a 60% advantage over other options even if i am still rather uncertain about it. I like to have a sense that I am doing my best based on circumstance and information available. I will switch course if there is a compelling reason that is worth the switch after one decision is put in place. Because of this I constantly look for strategies that are fluid and allow for alterations in long-term planning.

 

[beyondaurora]

When I go to a restaurant, I like to order last in case something else sounds better.

I am resurrecting this thread simply to say that I do this too! I will make the entire table order before me because I'm juggling a few options in my head, and I'm hoping something will just JUMP out at me when it's my turn. I often need that type of pressure to make a decision.

Continuing the topic per the OP, does anyone have some examples of the differences between how Ni/Fe and Fi/Ne play out in the respective types?

 

[Antreus]

I am so in the middle of so many personality types it is hard to distinguish. As a child I was more of an INFP but as I experienced more life and pursued more things and felt more confident in who I was, more able to relate my inner world to my outer world, or rather the outer in terms with my inner. I became more assertive and more forthright. I expected far less, although I from doing so, I created a void for desiring that much more.

Grace.

 

[jackandthebeast]

I find this quite annoying sometimes. If I think something bad about someone and he walks by, I can't really look at him because I know I'm too easy to read. But I have to look at him because it would be even more awkward not to look at him. And then he is being disapproved and I'll try to avoid walking around that neighborhood for a while so that when after a few months I bumb into him in a store or something I can be like "hey, what's up, its been a long time!"

Amen.

 

[Elfboy]

tough question. INFPs can be surprisingly J-ish at times, many of them are perfectionist (in a more subjective, chaotic, and disorganized sort of way) and if you get in the way of a moral cause, they will kill you (although unlike an ENTJ, they will feel bad afterword =)
likewise, INFJs can be surprisingly P-ish at times. they tend to be more open minded than most Js and have more perceiver interests (music, art, humanities) and can be extremely creative.
they have a lot of similarities: introspection,intense idealism, creativity, open mindedness, supreme intelligence, good at counseling people, great as friends (IFs in general are in my opinion the best types for friends)

the difference is mostly found in Fe/Fi. INFJs have Fe which is more people oriented. FJs help people because they feel like they have to. FPs help people because they want to and feel like it. while FPs thrive on helping others, they are by no means selfless. an INFJ will sometimes completely neglect their own needs and tear themselves apart via service. Fi makes sure this does not happen to INFPs who know that there self takes #1 priority (they are incredibly in touch with their feelings). INFPs help themselves first and help others once they have grown enough to do so (they want everyone to win but are willing so sacrifice much less than their J cousins)

at their best their differences come out more. INFPs will be happy and bubbly, full of imagination and internal energy (which they are much more willing to share than many introverts. an INFP once comfortable makes for an extremely affectionate friend of great conversation). although they are introverted, the NP (Ne) in them loves to talk. while INFJs are also creative, NFPs are by far the most creative 2 types out there (in fact, it's almost as much a curse as a gift. I enjoy this frequently, but as an entrepreneur, it often gets in the way of effectiveness, despite having lent me many profitable ideas).

INFJs on the other hand are probably the most intelligent of the types (well, maybe save INTJ), when they really trust their Ni, they are almost psychic. even so, they tend to be way to serious for my tastes and even at their best they play the broken hero who feels they need to sacrifice everything.

just a few examples of each
INFP: most authors, Johnny Depp, Fai from Tsubasa Chronicle, Star Girl (from the book of this title), the Little Prince, Bastian from the Never Ending Story
INFJ: Kenshin from rurouni kenshin, Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, Yugi from Yugioh, in ancient times: most shamans, oracles, and seers,
a few I'm on the fence about: Joan of Arc, Mithos from Tales of Symphonia, Amelie

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I am so in the middle of so many personality types it is hard to distinguish. As a child I was more of an INFP but as I experienced more life and pursued more things and felt more confident in who I was, more able to relate my inner world to my outer world, or rather the outer in terms with my inner. I became more assertive and more forthright. I expected far less, although I from doing so, I created a void for desiring that much more.

Grace.

So what your saying is that an INFP is just like an INFJ except they've experienced less life, pursued less things, feel less confident in who they are, are less able to relate their inner world to their outer world (or rather the outer in terms of their inner), are less assertive, less forthright, expect far more etc?




Sounds about right.

 

[Skyward]

So what your saying is that an INFP is just like an INFJ except they've experienced less life, pursued less things, feel less confident in who they are, are less able to relate their inner world to their outer world (or rather the outer in terms of their inner), are less assertive, less forthright, expect far more etc?


Sounds about right.

An INFJ basically acts like the above until their Ni has enough data to work with. I was the same, but more like an INTP (still am, but I'm still squishier than any T and rougher than many other F men).

I think the analogy of 'cleanliness is the view of my inner world' is a good way of describing how INFJs seem disorganized. Really, it's our minds that we really want to keep organized. We feel awful if it feels like our mind if filled with loose ends. Its a constant battle of fighting the frayed parts of our mind so our homes may suffer for it. The more introverted we are, too, the more frayed edges there can be (or maybe its the number of frays that make an INFJ more introverted?).

I tend to lash out at people if I'm acting on my crappy Se that likes to take control sometimes. Especially if I'm feeling edgy or nervous or too much caffeine. I hate feeling too introverted, though, because I enjoy being social. This sociality is mostly just being dumb and saying things I find witty (and not overly mean). I find making people laugh really keeps things casual and fun, and I guess I have a little bit of a talent for it.

 

[Synapse]

What We Mean When We Speak of the 'inFp', etc - A Critique of the J/P Designation in the MBTI

iNf = I and N-F-T-S = Ni-Fe-Ti-Se = INFJ
or
inF = I and F-N-S-T = Fi-Ne-Si-Te = INFP

I like this

Perhaps the fourth letter could be used to tell us whether or not the individual likes dogs (D) or cats (C), or is left handed (L) or right handed (R). Or perhaps it could be used to indicate whether the person has a tendency toward closure or not. To indicate a tendency toward closure, we could use the letter 'j' as the fourth letter, and to indicate a tendency toward non-closure, lets use 'p' as the fourth letter. And lets further specify that the 'J' and 'P' scales on the MBTI are to be used to test for 'j' and 'p'.

If a particular inF, then, turns out to have a tendency toward non-closure, by testing as a 'P' on the MBTI, we would signify this accordingly - by saying he is an 'inFp'.

'But how does this differ from the MBTI?', you might ask, perhaps a little bit frustrated at this point with all the detail that seems to be getting us nowhere. 'Aren't you still just saying the same thing as the MBTI?'

No. Not exactly. Granted, in the case of the inFp there is no difference - call the person an inFp or an INFP and it doesn't really matter - both amount to the same thing: an introvert (I) with F-N-S-T preference order and a proclivity toward 'p' (non-closure). But now consider this: to the first three letters in our new nomenclature, 'inF', you could also theoretically add a 'j' as the fourth letter - a possibility that isn't allowed in the MBTI!

This possibility isn't allowed in the MBTI because, according to the ASSUMPTIONS underlying the MBTI, since the orientation is 'I' and the preference order is F-N-S-T, one MUST add a 'p' to the first three letters, inF. If we want to act according to this assumption - that all Introverts with F-N-S-T preference order have 'p' traits (preference for non-closure, etc) - we'd have to say that every inF is an inFp.

But is this assumption TRUE? That is the $64,000 question!!!

If it indeed IS true, than the 'inF' must necessarily be equivalent to the inFp; and the 'p' in our new nomenclature would simply be redundant. Insofar as it is redundant, it would be best to simply drop it from the name and revert to the three letter characterization that we speak of in Section One above - inF.

But if it is not true that everyone who has an I orientation and a 'F-N-S-T' preference order is 'p', then some of those who are inF would in actuality turn out to also be 'j' !!! This would result in a new label, the inFj - standing for the person who is an introvert, with F-N-S-T preference order, but a 'j' disposition (prefering closure, etc). It would also result in 15 other previously unrecognized new type-labels. The new four-letter nomenclature would thus not be redundant at all, nor trivial. For it would open up 16 new possibilities that are by DEFINITION outlawed by the assumptions according to which the MBTI works.

So the fact that nobody has ever scored inFj on an MBTI test really tells us nothing about whether inFjs in fact exist. It just tells us that the MBTI, as a test, is based on a theoretical assumption that prevents it from even conceiving of the inFj, let along identifying one.

 

[21%]

I think the difference between Fe (INFJ) and Fi (INFP) is vast.

Fe seems to look down from above, from a larger picture. It looks at the whole situation, and what you feel is part of the whole bigger picture of how everybody (both those who are involved in the situation and all others -- society, other societies, the world) feels.

Fi seems to look out. You're in you, and you look out at the world. Your feelings are separated from the rest of the world. It's like you're looking through glass...

I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how I feel. It's the difference in direction and viewpoint.