[Ti] The Real Percentage

[nolla]

Speaking to an audience is very close to acting, or at least can be. I don't count acting to be fake if people you are acting to know that you are acting. If they don't know, and you know that they don't know, you are being fake.

 

[Totenkindly]

Speaking to an audience is very close to acting, or at least can be. I don't count acting to be fake if people you are acting to know that you are acting. If they don't know, and you know that they don't know, you are being fake.

So "fake" to you does not include "motivation" as a determining force?

I think we're always "acting" to some degree. So motivation is more decisive to me in determining the morality of the act, not the act of acting itself.

Or do we always assume and understand the other person is "on" to some degree?

 

[DigitalMethod]

Meh, I put 20-30% because I generally agree that a lot of people are fake (to an extent, basically the things nolla outlined), but I think 0-10% is being sorta pessimistic about humanity

 

[nolla]

So "fake" to you does not include "motivation" as a determining force?

I think we're always "acting" to some degree. So motivation is more decisive to me in determining the morality of the act, not the act of acting itself.

Well, if you act and know that the others don't know, it is quite obvious that you have some motivation to deceive them, isn't it?

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, if you act and know that the others don't know, it is quite obvious that you have some motivation to deceive them, isn't it?

So again, back to motivation: Is it always wrong to "deceive" someone?

What motivations might be positive?
What motivations might be negative?
Is it always negative?

 

[DigitalMethod]

Well, if you act and know that the others don't know, it is quite obvious that you have some motivation to deceive them, isn't it?

Yes, but for what reason? Which brings to question, the morality.

 

[Oberon]

Well, if you act and know that the others don't know, it is quite obvious that you have some motivation to deceive them, isn't it?

Well, have you ever heard that "You only have one chance to make a first impression"?

Is that not an admonition to be deceptive?

As in, you may occasionally pick your nose, but honesty does not require that you do so during your job interview.

 

[nolla]

So again, back to motivation: Is it always wrong to "deceive" someone?

What motivations might be positive?
What motivations might be negative?
Is it always negative?

Yeah, good questions... I don't know. I usually feel bad about deceiving people...

 

[Totenkindly]

Obie and Night discussion about me moved here

(massive derail, sorry 'bout that)

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, good questions... I don't know. I usually feel bad about deceiving people...

I do too, actually. So I'm usually torn.

 

[Oberon]

Obie and Night discussion about me moved here

(massive derail, sorry 'bout that)

Fair enough.

 

[Totenkindly]

...you may occasionally pick your nose, but honesty does not require that you do so during your job interview.

You mean I have to be terrified now that everyone I see is a secret nose picker? (you know what they say about picking noses and friends, right?)

So... examples of dubious circumstance?

e.g. A boss might feel unsure but knows that a decision has to be made on something big, and if they show weakness and uncertainty, the people will not follow and the plan will DEFINITELY fail... with worse results than if he did nothing. So he pretends to be fine and confident in his views, to win the support of the employees.

 

[nolla]

As in, you may occasionally pick your nose, but honesty does not require that you do so during your job interview.

Yeah, this would mean that there is no such thing as politeness.

I was in this job interview. I talked a lot and was quite happy. After I got the job I was more to myself and not that happy. It was because I was stressed and trying to concentrate on learning the job. So, they might think I fooled them. You think I did?

 

[Haphazard]

Getting a job is all about fooling people into thinking you're acceptable.

 

[nolla]

Getting a job is all about fooling people into thinking you're acceptable.

No, but I REALLY am!!!

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, this would mean that there is no such thing as politeness.

I was in this job interview. I talked a lot and was quite happy. After I got the job I was more to myself and not that happy. It was because I was stressed and trying to concentrate on learning the job. So, they might think I fooled them. You think I did?

Ever see Presumed Innocent, when Bonnie Bedelia comes back from her interview and says to her hubby, "I fooled them. I fooled them all"?

She knows she's as talented as anyone else. She can do the job, theoretically. She just didn't feel confident. So she pretended to be confident. But it was a 'good faith' gesture. Similar to what you did, I assume.

Another example: A marriage breaks up. One spouse accuses the other of "changing radically" after the split-up when their behavior seems to be different overnight. The other says, "No, I was changing the whole time and already a lot like this inside, but I couldn't show it externally because in good faith I was trying to keep things stable and make it work... and once it was over, I no longer had to keep suppressing it."

"The Games People Play." We all play games, but intention seems to be important, to me.

 

[nolla]

e.g. A boss might feel unsure but knows that a decision has to be made on something big, and if they show weakness and uncertainty, the people will not follow and the plan will DEFINITELY fail... with worse results than if he did nothing. So he pretends to be fine and confident in his views, to win the support of the employees.

That is a borderline case of acting. There is a "role of boss" which is required for someone to play. The person selected for the role has to do it and everyone knows that it is his job to make decisions based on hunches.

 

[nolla]

So she pretended to be confident. But it was a 'good faith' gesture. Similar to what you did, I assume.

I think it more like "the work changed me temporarily". I was back to my old self when I got comfortable at the job.

Another example: A marriage breaks up. One spouse accuses the other of "changing radically" after the split-up when their behavior seems to be different overnight. The other says, "No, I was changing the whole time and already a lot like this inside, but I couldn't show it externally because in good faith I was trying to keep things stable and make it work... and once it was over, I no longer had to keep suppressing it."

I only feel that it is tragic that the spouse couldn't be his/herself. The other one might have liked the change.

 

[nottaprettygal]

- Having many different faces for situations
- Thinking a lot about what people want to hear
- Do not have many opinions of their own
- Lying a lot
- Spending a lot of time and money building appearances

Yeah. I'm totally fake.

But what if it's natural to do some of the things listed above?

 

[nolla]

But what if it's natural to do some of the things listed above?

All of them are natural things I guess. Or most of them, at least. The differences are in how much you use these ways to fool people. Or, as jennifer said, the motivation.

Im sure there can be no community that is 100% real, but neither can it be all fake.