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View Poll Results: How many are real?

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32. You may not vote on this poll
  • 0-10 %

    5 15.63%
  • 10-20 %

    4 12.50%
  • 20-30 %

    5 15.63%
  • 30-40 %

    0 0%
  • 40-50 %

    2 6.25%
  • 50-60 %

    1 3.13%
  • 60-70 %

    1 3.13%
  • 70-80 %

    4 12.50%
  • 80-90 %

    5 15.63%
  • 90-100 %

    5 15.63%
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Results 11 to 20 of 66

  1. #11
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    I went the 90-100% route. Even though someone may be insincere (as an example adjective), they are still real and genuine in their insencerity. Much like the phantasms in a schizophrenic's mind aren't exactly what his perception would believe them to be, they are still real thoughts.

    Another example would be to say:

    POV1: George Bush was not real with the American People.
    POV2: Actually, he was real. A real snake.

    See?

    If you mean real to be nothing hidden, or without ulterior motivethen I would vote 0-10%.

    And then let's not forget solipsism, which might lead me to think that there is truly NO other real person but me. ;p

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Fake? As in human? Do you believe aliens walk among us? What about angels?

    Or, oh, is this the NF version of fake?

    There seems to be this NF assumption that everyone is being fake because they don't act as you do. Being the same on the inside as you are on the outside seems to be only an NF concept of the only way to be 'authentic' and 'not fake.' And I'm starting to get sick of it.

    If that's the definition we're working with, then being fake is a very, very good thing. If I was 'real' all the time, I'd probably be a violent, nervous wreck with a good few murders under my belt. And you know, I'd rather be a dreaded 'fake' person than executed. It is congruent with my value system that survival trumps a lot of things. Being 'fake' is not a problem at all.

    Also it doesn't seem to go along with the fact that there are plenty of people who are *not* congruent with how they behave and how they feel, because that's what's most natural for them. Is it right to go against nature in striving to not be 'fake'?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
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    Ok, the fake-factors

    - Having many different faces for situations
    - Thinking a lot about what people want to hear
    - Do not have many opinions of their own
    - Lying a lot
    - Spending a lot of time and money building appearances

    I might be adding some later on... As you can see they are all relative. Everybody obviously does these things to some degree, but some seem to be all about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokerzen View Post
    I went the 90-100% route. Even though someone may be insincere (as an example adjective), they are still real and genuine in their insencerity.
    Hmm... It would mean that it is impossible to be "fake in your insincerity". It would take away the meaning of the word "fake". That's weird.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Being the same on the inside as you are on the outside seems to be only an NF concept of the only way to be 'authentic' and 'not fake.' And I'm starting to get sick of it.
    Yes. That's the definition I was looking for. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If I was 'real' all the time, I'd probably be a violent, nervous wreck with a good few murders under my belt. And you know, I'd rather be a dreaded 'fake' person than executed.
    I doubt that, but I'll admit there must be people who are most real when killing people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Also it doesn't seem to go along with the fact that there are plenty of people who are *not* congruent with how they behave and how they feel, because that's what's most natural for them. Is it right to go against nature in striving to not be 'fake'?
    If you change and try to behave as your old self, then you are not being real. Being real doesn't mean that you behave the same throughout your life. It is relative to the situation.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokerzen View Post
    I went the 90-100% route. Even though someone may be insincere (as an example adjective), they are still real and genuine in their insencerity. Much like the phantasms in a schizophrenic's mind aren't exactly what his perception would believe them to be, they are still real thoughts.

    Another example would be to say:

    POV1: George Bush was not real with the American People.
    POV2: Actually, he was real. A real snake.
    or even POV3: Someone who did what he felt was right... and made horrible terrible mistakes because of it. (I hate what he's done during his tenure -- but it doesn't mean I think he's 'fake.')

    All right. Like many others have suggested, we're all 'fake' to a degree in that we usually minimize our weaknesses and maximize our good qualities. Because we want to be (1) accepted and liked and (2) successful in reaching our goals.

    But I don't consider this "fake" even tho it's a manipulation of our public persona. Usually this persona is still pretty consistent, even if it's not truly representative of us in our human frailty.

    I define "fake" as in real large inconsistency of persona, all based on crass manipulation of people and situations without any other concern but the gratification of the person involved. You're not dealing with a person at that point, you are dealing with various "snapshots" that are not tied at all to any particular human being -- just representative of an underlying rapacious hunger and will without true human characteristics.

    Which leads me to this note: One can never underestimate the impact of religious belief on what one considers to be "real" vs. fake.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
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    Hmm.

    - Having many different faces for situations - you mean like, not swearing in front of your grandmother, or talking about all the pot you smoked last night with an acquaintance who happens to be a policeman? nobody could be that socially inept and be happy.
    - Thinking a lot about what people want to hear - insecurity isn't the same as fakeness, though they might correlate
    - Do not have many opinions of their own - this is shallowness, lack of curiosity, apathy about the subject, or lack of intelligence....none of these are "fake", just different from you (presumably)
    - Lying a lot - for fun? I don't know many people who do this.
    - Spending a lot of time and money building appearances - a lot of people value their appearance and it makes them happy to look good. I wouldn't call it fake, I'd call it following your desires - some people have different desires, that's all.

    You see what I meant? People may have very different values and desires from you, and it doesn't automatically mean that they're fake.

  7. #17
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Ok, the fake-factors

    - Having many different faces for situations

    - Thinking a lot about what people want to hear
    - Do not have many opinions of their own
    - Lying a lot
    - Spending a lot of time and money building appearances

    I might be adding some later on... As you can see they are all relative. Everybody obviously does these things to some degree, but some seem to be all about them.
    Hmm, three out of five, not bad. I'd win a rock, paper, scissors tournament!

    The second one is a big one for me. I've got to hone what I'm going to say to the general audience. I hone it to have its greatest effect, whether that effect be good or shocking or funny. And it's all absolutely natural.

    I usually advise people to think before they speak. They might speak their true feelings in the heat of the moment, but really, is that what anybody will want to hear? Will they take to it kindly? What if what sounds perfectly clear to you is misinterpreted fatally? Speech is one of those matters of life and death -- of COURSE I'm going to consider a lot what people want to hear.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Hmm.

    - Having many different faces for situations - you mean like, not swearing in front of your grandmother, or talking about all the pot you smoked last night with an acquaintance who happens to be a policeman? nobody could be that socially inept and be happy.
    - Thinking a lot about what people want to hear - insecurity isn't the same as fakeness, though they might correlate
    - Do not have many opinions of their own - this is shallowness, lack of curiosity, apathy about the subject, or lack of intelligence....none of these are "fake", just different from you (presumably)
    - Lying a lot - for fun? I don't know many people who do this.
    - Spending a lot of time and money building appearances - a lot of people value their appearance and it makes them happy to look good. I wouldn't call it fake, I'd call it following your desires - some people have different desires, that's all.

    You see what I meant? People may have very different values and desires from you, and it doesn't automatically mean that they're fake.


    Sure. It's not hard to crack those definitions like that. None of them is the same as being fake. I still do think that if you get "high points" from all of them, you are pretty surely fake in my eyes.

    But the point for me to start the thread was to get the different definitions and point of views on being real. Not necessarily argue about what I see to be real.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Hmm, three out of five, not bad. I'd win a rock, paper, scissors tournament!

    The second one is a big one for me. I've got to hone what I'm going to say to the general audience. I hone it to have its greatest effect, whether that effect be good or shocking or funny. And it's all absolutely natural.

    I usually advise people to think before they speak. They might speak their true feelings in the heat of the moment, but really, is that what anybody will want to hear? Will they take to it kindly? What if what sounds perfectly clear to you is misinterpreted fatally? Speech is one of those matters of life and death -- of COURSE I'm going to consider a lot what people want to hear.
    I think what he means is that the speaker will change his/her opinions and points of view to what the audience wants to hear. Perhaps?
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  10. #20
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    I think what he means is that the speaker will change his/her opinions and points of view to what the audience wants to hear. Perhaps?
    Oh, I wouldn't call that fake, I'd just call that annoying.

    It's fun to trip people like that up.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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