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  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    You can "do" ethics as an NT, but "doing" ethics and making your decisions BASED on ethics are very different things. What NTs and NFs do with ethics are rather different.
    We'd have to clearly define what we understand for sentimental to be. As far as I am concerned it just means emotional sensitivity. This does not imply being emotionally demonstrative or an inability to think clearly. It is important to draw a distinction between temperament and personality. Sentimentality is a personality trait, not a temperamental. As far as temperament is concerned, all that we can say is that NFs have more propensities to be in tune with emotions.

    Not only is Fi about values, Ti can be as well. All Judging functions are, the difference is that the Extroverted Ones have a collectivist mindset and the Introverted---an individualist. Ti/Fi are concerned with the values of the individual and Fe/Te--societal values.

    You are right about how NFs and NTs use ethics differently. NFs tend to apply them more, whereas NTs may use the T to find their values but they would make their decisions based on what they think make senses and not what their values tell them would be right.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    It might be a useful exercise for you to demonstrate the process of Fi versus Ti in making a decision. I will think on what an appropriate hypothetical decision might be for such an exercise.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Oprah Winfrey, ENFJ
    i c a n ' t s t a n d o p r a h
    .
    INTP/5w4 sx

  4. #24
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    You are right about how NFs and NTs use ethics differently. NFs tend to apply them more, whereas NTs may use the T to find their values but they would make their decisions based on what they think make senses and not what their values tell them would be right.
    And there you have it. NFs apply ethics (what they think is the right thing to do); NTs apply logic, or "what they think makes sense."

  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    It might be a useful exercise for you to demonstrate the process of Fi versus Ti in making a decision. I will think on what an appropriate hypothetical decision might be for such an exercise.


    Fi-Think about values. Decide that for example it would be appropriate for you to tell the truth as you endorse the value of honesty.

    Ti-Think the whole situation through and come up with the most reasonable way to handle the situation. In this sense the T has tendencies towards nihilism.

    Yet again Ti can endorse some values as vehemently as Fi endorses others. For instance INTPs can be stubborn about preserving their autonomy and doing all they can to maintain it just because they deem for it to be paramount. But again the reason why they are doing this is because they've thought it through and decided that they need autonomy.

    Seems to me the only difference between F and T is that Fs tend to be attached more to their values and have more of them than Ts. So the sphere of ethical exploration for the F is much broader than for the T, so no wonder that we could easily think that the T leaves no room for ethics at all, as it is predominantly a Feeling enterprise.

    So how do Ts end up getting attached to some ethical maxims? Only after their T based decisions have invoked the Feeling element. Like with the INTP the need for autonomy will be reaffirmed by the Fe, as it is slave to the Ti. This leaves us without a doubt that you were right that passions are the source of all ethics and not dispassioned contemplation.

    You can use T to found ethics, but the reason why you are trying to found them is because of your F. If it wasnt for the human passions, ethics would serve no purpose. As their end can be nothing other than maximizing our satisfaction.

  6. #26
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasz View Post
    i c a n ' t s t a n d o p r a h
    I think you might be the only one lol.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Jasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I think you might be the only one lol.
    i know, i know. she has done so much good but she is soooo full of herself, i can't get beyond that (how she always keep pulling attention back to her, never really letting anyone shine unless it is in relation to her).
    .
    INTP/5w4 sx

  8. #28
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasz View Post
    i know, i know. she has done so much good but she is soooo full of herself, i can't get beyond that (how she always keep pulling attention back to her, never really letting anyone shine unless it is in relation to her).
    I don't dislike her, but she scares me. I would not want to be on her bad side or in her way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasz View Post
    i c a n ' t s t a n d o p r a h
    is that because she makes more money in four minutes as we each make in a year?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't dislike her, but she scares me. I would not want to be on her bad side or in her way.
    I feel that way about every ENFJ I've ever met.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

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