User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 24

  1. #1
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    2,631

    Default You don't do anything for me!

    Hi everyone. I'm sort of going through a weird transition at the moment that involves a total shift in perspective. I'm questioning myself a little bit and I'm not sure if I'm biased or if I'm forgetting something important. Honest opinions will be very helpful.

    Recently my INFP said that that I never do anything for him, during a disagreement. He had been pestering me to get piercings, and I told him that I really did not want to get them. I don't even have my ears pierced! He then started lashing out and said I never did things for him, and proceeded to listing out the things he wanted but I never did for him.

    The things include:
    - Me not wanting to move Long story short: I told him even before we got into a relationship that I was not willing to relocate and he should really think about it whether he wanted a relationship that was bound to become long-distance soon -- he jumped into it without thinking, saying he would move to be with me. To be honest, if he finds a job somewhere else in the world I will seriously consider doing some freelance work so I will be able to be with him at least for a certain amount of time in a year. I'm not willing to totally move away, but I will definitely try to 'make things work'.
    - During his visit, I never take days off work to be with him I have a full time job, and on most days I did leave work a couple of hours early to avoid traffic. I took a few full days off, but a lot of half-days. I only have one full day off each week, and that day is always his, from the moment we wake up until bedtime.
    - Beach trip that never happened This is partly my fault, as I mentioned I was working on one as his birthday gift. During the last few weeks of his visit, however, lots of things happened. His landlord decided to get a new tenant and he had to look for a new place, loan problems, etc., and we were both stressed trying to handle all the things that needed to be done.
    - He is always the one visiting It's true. But I have a job, and being a PhD student he has months-long summer holidays, so it is more sensible for him to come visit. He pays for the flights, and I pay for his rent when he is here, which come out to about the same amount of money, which equals my 3-4 months' savings.
    - I won't get my body pierced for him It's true. I don't want piercings. I really don't want them. I don't think this is really relevant, though. It was just a breaking point for deeper issues.

    But I'm always there for him emotionally, especially in the last three years where he is battling depression and stress. I always listen, and I always try to help him plan. He discusses his work with me and I really listen and think about it and give feedback. In the last three weeks or so we talked about literally nothing but his work. I think I'm being supportive and understanding.

    I know he usually lashes out and says hurtful things when he is under stress. He can get into a very dark mood where he proclaims that he hates everything and the world hates him. When he is stressed he is emotionally closed off and I can forget trying to talk to him about anything. Even when I have problems, he isn't even willing to listen. Then afterwards sometimes he will feel sorry. He wil apologize. He does try. It's just that when he is stressed out he is so overwhelmed by negative emotions and thoughts there is no room for anything and anyone.

    I used to be really, really hurt by all this. Usually if he said something to suggest that I was 'selfish', I would feel extremely hurt. This time, initially it did have that effect, and I just couldn't sleep for several days. Last night we had a chance to talk about it, and I finally had a chance to tell him how I felt and why. He listened, but said nothing, and steered the conversation into something a little lighter. I could tell he was still very depressed.

    Then tonight I had a thought. I realized something that should be very obvious: I don't need to feel hurt. I know I love him and that's all I need to know. Because of this I should let go of all expectations. My love is mine to give and I will give it freely. I don't expect anything in return. I don't expect him to appreciate it. I don't expect him to treat me nicely. I can choose not to be hurt.

    And suddenly, all the pain was gone. I actually felt happy, and light, and free. We talked again for a little bit and today he avoided the 'conflict' topics. He still said I don't do things for him, and when I asked if he could tell me why he felt that way, he said he didn't know. Then he didn't want to talk anymore. Usually I would be hurt by this, but not now. I even went as far as thinking how I would feel if he did not want the relationship anymore and I imagined us going our separate ways. It made me feel a little wistful, but there was no real pain.

    I think I know why he said such a thing but I'll start with a little (true) story first. There was one time he was in my room. We were doing a mini spring-cleaning, and he saw a postcard sent to me long time ago by one of my guy friends who used to like me. He got extremely jealous and he half-jokingly but quite seriously said he was going to throw it away. I just shrugged and said "Ok.", grabbed it from his hand and was about to toss it into the trash when he said "No. Don't do it!" I asked why and he said "If it doesn't really mean anything to you, then it doesn't matter if you keep it."

    I think the same goes for this whole "I do nothing for him" issue. He secretly wants me to 'love him enough that I am willing to give up everything -- my life, my family, my job -- to be with him'. In reality, he is never going to make me do it, but he will feel satisfied that he is that important to me. The fact that I keep "not doing things" for him, although they are decisions that make sense logically, makes him feel unloved. I totally understand this. I can really sympathize with the need for intense connection. I think he is an sx-dom, and this is the sx's desire for the ultimate union.

    So, my questions are:

    Am I 'growing' in my love or did I just 'unconsciously extract myself from caring too much because it's too hard'? I'm sure I want to be with him, but I feel like it's not entirely up to me and I can't make things happen. I'm doing my best to work towards a future (although it feels a bit one-sided), but if it doesn't work out then there is nothing I can do about it. I am trying my best and if he has a better idea about how things can be, I'm all ears. In a way, I feel like I'm freeing myself from responsibility, and it feels great. The fact that it feels great is making me question myself if I really feel that way or is it something I made up to fool myself to mask over the hurt.

    Also, how can I help him? How can I make him feel loved? Can you relate to this kind of feeling at all? Does my speculation make sense?

    I am a bit confused by my new-found freedom. So, any thoughts at all? Thanks!
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  2. #2
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,483

    Default

    Your freedom doesn't sound like a solution to me.. maybe just a step to a solution, some space for yourself to think objectively.

    It sounds like your partner has some personal issues causing him to lash out like that. He might feel powerless in the relationship, or just in his own life, for reasons that I could not guess at. And it sounds like he is expecting a lot from you, more than can be expected from even a SO. It sounds to me like he's attaching those problems to you.

    Actually, I feel like I can relate to him not all that long ago in my life. :/

  3. #3
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    You two aren't on equal positions of power, because he's got some significant self-work to do (doable self work, but like you say, it's not entirely up to you):

    The outcome is going to be one of these:
    1.) He does the work, power is rebalanced to a healthy level, you have a worthwhile relationship
    2.) He doesn't do the work, power is always unbalanced, you have an unhealthy relationship, and you have to decide if you want to spend your life's energy trying to balance the scales with someone who isn't doing the work to be a healthy adult. (This decision is something I can definitely sympathize with - I would've answered yes to this for a long time, though with some distance I can see that I'm a more vibrant person not wasting my energy and angsting about something that's located outside of my control. Your boyfriend feels like it's outside his control, like @Qlip points out - don't let him convince you otherwise, because if you affirm his false narrative, he stops looking for the source, which is really himself, and it removes his opportunity to have a great life. Don't baby him.)
    3.) He doesn't do the work, power is always unbalanced, and you give yourself the opportunity to walk away - which doesn't mean you don't love or respect him, but that your life's purpose is not throwing away your energy and attention to things that are ultimately rooted in his decision to not grow.

    #ThingIHadToLearnTheHardWay: PhD dudes can dialogue about their emotions really well, but if they're not experiencing and feeling and sorting through their emotions, they're not actually doing any work--they're spinning their wheels indefinitely. They're outside the glass room looking in, not sensing things experientially.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #4
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ESI Fi
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    to answer your questions: you are growing, now you need to figure out if he is going to grow.
    Part of him growing is that he needs to realize that no one can make him feel loved but himself.
    Just like you have learned that no one can make you feel hurt except you. You decide how people affect you, no one else. This can be very hard to do, so props to you
    I'm not sure how you can help him, almost sounds like you can guide him to the water but can't make him drink kinda situation. You can't change him, I guess maybe you can just identify the problem with him, and then decide if you both will go in the same direction afterwards.
    IMO it sounds like he wants you to be the one to make him happy. But we should not depend on others to make us happy. He has to say "I love myself, and I love my life" and accept things the way they are. Or make them better himself. He should be so happy to have such at person that's always there for him.
    I can relate to both sides, I have had very high expectations of partners in the past and I also have had others place high expectations on me...And recently I have needed to decide if i'm going to be the only one growing in the relationship. It can be very draining.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  5. #5
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Hi everyone. I'm sort of going through a weird transition at the moment that involves a total shift in perspective. I'm questioning myself a little bit and I'm not sure if I'm biased or if I'm forgetting something important. Honest opinions will be very helpful.

    Recently my INFP said that that I never do anything for him, during a disagreement. He had been pestering me to get piercings, and I told him that I really did not want to get them. I don't even have my ears pierced! He then started lashing out and said I never did things for him, and proceeded to listing out the things he wanted but I never did for him.

    The things include:
    - Me not wanting to move Long story short: I told him even before we got into a relationship that I was not willing to relocate and he should really think about it whether he wanted a relationship that was bound to become long-distance soon -- he jumped into it without thinking, saying he would move to be with me. To be honest, if he finds a job somewhere else in the world I will seriously consider doing some freelance work so I will be able to be with him at least for a certain amount of time in a year. I'm not willing to totally move away, but I will definitely try to 'make things work'.
    - During his visit, I never take days off work to be with him I have a full time job, and on most days I did leave work a couple of hours early to avoid traffic. I took a few full days off, but a lot of half-days. I only have one full day off each week, and that day is always his, from the moment we wake up until bedtime.
    - Beach trip that never happened This is partly my fault, as I mentioned I was working on one as his birthday gift. During the last few weeks of his visit, however, lots of things happened. His landlord decided to get a new tenant and he had to look for a new place, loan problems, etc., and we were both stressed trying to handle all the things that needed to be done.
    - He is always the one visiting It's true. But I have a job, and being a PhD student he has months-long summer holidays, so it is more sensible for him to come visit. He pays for the flights, and I pay for his rent when he is here, which come out to about the same amount of money, which equals my 3-4 months' savings.
    Dialog and expectation/balance management. Thought this is conditioned by underlying issues.

    - I won't get my body pierced for him It's true. I don't want piercings. I really don't want them. I don't think this is really relevant, though. It was just a breaking point for deeper issues.
    Srsly, if the mere expectation imprint wasn't enough, actually demanding physical integrity violation is just on the top of fucked up. Still, just a byproduct of the whole mindset, it could likely be that the more permanent the action is, the more it feels in his mind as a sign of commitment. Still, theories apart, just fucked up.

    But I'm always there for him emotionally, especially in the last three years where he is battling depression and stress. I always listen, and I always try to help him plan. He discusses his work with me and I really listen and think about it and give feedback. In the last three weeks or so we talked about literally nothing but his work. I think I'm being supportive and understanding.

    I know he usually lashes out and says hurtful things when he is under stress. He can get into a very dark mood where he proclaims that he hates everything and the world hates him. When he is stressed he is emotionally closed off and I can forget trying to talk to him about anything. Even when I have problems, he isn't even willing to listen. Then afterwards sometimes he will feel sorry. He wil apologize. He does try. It's just that when he is stressed out he is so overwhelmed by negative emotions and thoughts there is no room for anything and anyone.

    I used to be really, really hurt by all this. Usually if he said something to suggest that I was 'selfish', I would feel extremely hurt. This time, initially it did have that effect, and I just couldn't sleep for several days. Last night we had a chance to talk about it, and I finally had a chance to tell him how I felt and why. He listened, but said nothing, and steered the conversation into something a little lighter. I could tell he was still very depressed.

    Then tonight I had a thought. I realized something that should be very obvious: I don't need to feel hurt. I know I love him and that's all I need to know. Because of this I should let go of all expectations. My love is mine to give and I will give it freely. I don't expect anything in return. I don't expect him to appreciate it. I don't expect him to treat me nicely. I can choose not to be hurt.

    And suddenly, all the pain was gone. I actually felt happy, and light, and free. We talked again for a little bit and today he avoided the 'conflict' topics. He still said I don't do things for him, and when I asked if he could tell me why he felt that way, he said he didn't know. Then he didn't want to talk anymore. Usually I would be hurt by this, but not now. I even went as far as thinking how I would feel if he did not want the relationship anymore and I imagined us going our separate ways. It made me feel a little wistful, but there was no real pain.

    I think I know why he said such a thing but I'll start with a little (true) story first. There was one time he was in my room. We were doing a mini spring-cleaning, and he saw a postcard sent to me long time ago by one of my guy friends who used to like me. He got extremely jealous and he half-jokingly but quite seriously said he was going to throw it away. I just shrugged and said "Ok.", grabbed it from his hand and was about to toss it into the trash when he said "No. Don't do it!" I asked why and he said "If it doesn't really mean anything to you, then it doesn't matter if you keep it."

    I think the same goes for this whole "I do nothing for him" issue. He secretly wants me to 'love him enough that I am willing to give up everything -- my life, my family, my job -- to be with him'. In reality, he is never going to make me do it, but he will feel satisfied that he is that important to me. The fact that I keep "not doing things" for him, although they are decisions that make sense logically, makes him feel unloved. I totally understand this. I can really sympathize with the need for intense connection. I think he is an sx-dom, and this is the sx's desire for the ultimate union.

    So, my questions are:

    Am I 'growing' in my love or did I just 'unconsciously extract myself from caring too much because it's too hard'? I'm sure I want to be with him, but I feel like it's not entirely up to me and I can't make things happen. I'm doing my best to work towards a future (although it feels a bit one-sided), but if it doesn't work out then there is nothing I can do about it. I am trying my best and if he has a better idea about how things can be, I'm all ears. In a way, I feel like I'm freeing myself from responsibility, and it feels great. The fact that it feels great is making me question myself if I really feel that way or is it something I made up to fool myself to mask over the hurt.

    Also, how can I help him? How can I make him feel loved? Can you relate to this kind of feeling at all? Does my speculation make sense?

    I am a bit confused by my new-found freedom. So, any thoughts at all? Thanks!
    As for the rest, this is a good read: relevant to your case and I think you've done most of the reasoning already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    #ThingIHadToLearnTheHardWay: PhD dudes can dialogue about their emotions really well, but if they're not experiencing and feeling and sorting through their emotions, they're not actually doing any work--they're spinning their wheels indefinitely. They're outside the glass room looking in, not sensing things experientially.
    Is this a new type?
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #6
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Pressuring you to get anything pierced is horrendous behaviour. Not acceptable. Body autonomy is a basic human right.
    -end of thread-

  7. #7
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    I think while in the midst of a relationship, and caring and loving the other person, it can be easy to fall into rationalizing things, and trying to make things work no matter what the cost. It sounds like you've been doing an awful lot of accommodating and trying to see and understand his pov, and I'm not sensing as much of him being able to do the same for you.

    I think it's good that you've gotten to this 'place' where it seems you're at least a little less attached to an imperative-must-have-outcome - i.e. making things work whatever the cost. Because, in the end, maybe this relationship isn't what is best for both of you in the long run.

    OR maybe it is.

    But I think it's good that you're starting to realize that you can only do so much and you're ultimately not responsible for him or his side of the relationship. And, you also can't make him happy - I mean, if he's unhappy within himself, to his core, nothing you do or say is going to be able to 'fix' that or cover it up or whatever. He needs to take care of himself and build his own core to be able to then be happy and fully extend to others and be in a mutually giving relationship. You can give and give, and flex, and try to be empathetic to him, which of course is loving and great, but it should always be a two-way street, where he is able to fully give of himself as well, and fully accept who YOU are. And, if he's not in the end able to deal with who you are as well as what your boundaries are in terms of yourself/identity, then that's just something that will unfold and maybe the relationship will have to end.

    I wish all the best for you guys and hope you can continue having some honest discussions, either to grow together and work through this or to realize that it can't be sustained in the longterm for whatever reason.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Am I 'growing' in my love or did I just 'unconsciously extract myself from caring too much because it's too hard'? I'm sure I want to be with him, but I feel like it's not entirely up to me and I can't make things happen. I'm doing my best to work towards a future (although it feels a bit one-sided), but if it doesn't work out then there is nothing I can do about it. I am trying my best and if he has a better idea about how things can be, I'm all ears. In a way, I feel like I'm freeing myself from responsibility, and it feels great. The fact that it feels great is making me question myself if I really feel that way or is it something I made up to fool myself to mask over the hurt.
    Sounds like you're on the edge and you have to choose. I think it's easy for us NFs to ignore the emotional ramifications of a break-up until we're actually there... because we can really idealize the freedom in our heads, but then everything is fantastic in theory. Though by the same token, we can also totally catastrophize, and maybe it wouldn't be a big deal at all. My experience is that when I feel emotionally numb, the emotions I should probably be feeling will catch up to me sooner or later.

    Also, how can I help him? How can I make him feel loved? Can you relate to this kind of feeling at all? Does my speculation make sense?
    I think the same goes for this whole "I do nothing for him" issue. He secretly wants me to 'love him enough that I am willing to give up everything -- my life, my family, my job -- to be with him'. In reality, he is never going to make me do it, but he will feel satisfied that he is that important to me. The fact that I keep "not doing things" for him, although they are decisions that make sense logically, makes him feel unloved. I totally understand this. I can really sympathize with the need for intense connection. I think he is an sx-dom, and this is the sx's desire for the ultimate union.
    IRT your question #2, regardless of personal psychological healths of both of you, between this and the postcard situation, I think you hit a HUGE thing here, maybe the center issue in all of this. I gleaned it too, from reading. I figured you were sp-dom before finding it in your profile, it just comes across in the way you describe your life. He's sx and you're sp and he feels how you make sure you're safe first and then make sure he is. As sx-dom, he's always going to make sure you're safe first and then make sure he is. So regardless of whatever happens after that first moment, he's going to keep feeling your lack of willingness to abandon yourself for him, and compare that to his willingness to abandon himself completely to you, and keep feeling like you don't do anything for him. I think you should bring this up to him and see if he feels that way.

    I'm an sx-dom and I've always been drawn to non-sx-doms - sp-doms especially - and I do deeply understand this feeling of not-fair-ness, but I also don't think I want to be with an sx-dom... I've never been particularly drawn to them. I like my mate being very grounded. I think maybe you could make it clear to him that your way of providing for him is in part being stable in part for him, and that those sp-needs are just part and parcel to who you are. I get frustrated sometimes when my partner needs to attend to some personal matter or other before he can really attend to things together, but that independence and self-sufficiency is also extremely attractive to me, and he always includes me when calculating those personal matters. One of the other things that makes me love his sp-dom-ness is that by virtue of being sp, he helps me develop my own person. Sx-doms have the tendency to meld completely into something else, and that's wonderful to some extent, that's what makes us feel alive, but we can get lost down there, too, and surrender our will completely, and suddenly as that something else changes, find ourselves head over heels in something we don't support. I've had it happen. It's horrible. So... maybe you could talk to him about some of the benefits of your orientation, too. Try to get him to understand that it's not about the depth of your feeling for him; it's who you are and it can be really good for him. But you can also, via constant communication and acknowledgment, help him feel more included in your life, too. I love talks about how my partner and I balance each other. I think it's wonderful and fascinating. Maybe he would enjoy talking about that with you.

    I am a bit confused by my new-found freedom. So, any thoughts at all? Thanks!
    I agree with what @cascadeco said, here. It's good to step away emotionally sometimes, and get a "clearer" picture. Also, keep in mind that NFP temper tantrums usually involve poor Te invokage. So his list is probably more about the "theme" than about the individual points.

    I think deciding whether or not you can have a balanced relationship with him is a major point. My partner is decidedly more emotionally stable than myself, but I think my ability to completely surround him in positive affirmation and love and protection helps make up for that. Does your INFP have enough strengths to be able to heal you as much as hurt you...?

  9. #9
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    2,631

    Default

    Dear everyone. Thanks for the responses! You guys are very helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It sounds like your partner has some personal issues causing him to lash out like that. He might feel powerless in the relationship, or just in his own life, for reasons that I could not guess at. And it sounds like he is expecting a lot from you, more than can be expected from even a SO. It sounds to me like he's attaching those problems to you.
    I think you're right about the bolded. His situation right now is pretty stressful and the future seems very dark and uncertain, which is why I think I'm going to cut him some serious slack and trust that he doesn't mean to hurt me. You said you could relate to him -- would love to hear more about it if you don't mind!

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    You two aren't on equal positions of power, because he's got some significant self-work to do (doable self work, but like you say, it's not entirely up to you)
    ...
    #ThingIHadToLearnTheHardWay: PhD dudes can dialogue about their emotions really well, but if they're not experiencing and feeling and sorting through their emotions, they're not actually doing any work--they're spinning their wheels indefinitely. They're outside the glass room looking in, not sensing things experientially.
    I agree with all you said. Normally the idea of situation #2 and #3 will upset me and I would think that if I worked hard enough, I could make it happen. Now I've realized it's not up to me. It sounds idiotically simple and I can't believe why it took me so long to see this. After all, lots of people on this forum have told me and at that time I sort of understood it intellectually. Now I just realized what it really meant

    True about PhD dudes. My boyfriend keeps saying his life was great until the PhD completely ruined it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I'm not sure how you can help him, almost sounds like you can guide him to the water but can't make him drink kinda situation. You can't change him, I guess maybe you can just identify the problem with him, and then decide if you both will go in the same direction afterwards.
    IMO it sounds like he wants you to be the one to make him happy. But we should not depend on others to make us happy. He has to say "I love myself, and I love my life" and accept things the way they are. Or make them better himself. He should be so happy to have such at person that's always there for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think it's good that you've gotten to this 'place' where it seems you're at least a little less attached to an imperative-must-have-outcome - i.e. making things work whatever the cost. Because, in the end, maybe this relationship isn't what is best for both of you in the long run.
    ...
    I wish all the best for you guys and hope you can continue having some honest discussions, either to grow together and work through this or to realize that it can't be sustained in the longterm for whatever reason.
    Thanks! This is pretty new to me. I've 'detached' before, when I realized I was relying on having a great connection with him to make me happy. It was something he was sometimes unable to give. That was more out of self-preservation. This time is different, though. This is the first time I don't feel like I'm detaching. I'm reaching out with the same amount of communication and trust, but I don't get hurt if I don't get the same thing back. I think I like it this way

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Pressuring you to get anything pierced is horrendous behaviour. Not acceptable. Body autonomy is a basic human right.
    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Srsly, if the mere expectation imprint wasn't enough, actually demanding physical integrity violation is just on the top of fucked up. Still, just a byproduct of the whole mindset, it could likely be that the more permanent the action is, the more it feels in his mind as a sign of commitment. Still, theories apart, just fucked up.
    Yeah, he's said hurtful things before with his 'lashing out', which he doesn't mean, but that was just bordering on abusive for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    As for the rest, this is a good read: relevant to your case and I think you've done most of the reasoning already.
    I thought of that thread too when I was writing up the OP! I remember that the first time I read it I felt that the 'love relationship' sounded a bit too ideal -- and seems to imply an already healthy relationship "going a step further". I read it again and I'm not sure what to think now. I understand it a bit more, but I don't think it's somewhere you can go by yourself if your partner is totally not on the same page. The thing about 'not rewarding manipulative love' is hard to achieve in real life.

    When I was a kid, the only time I ever threw a tantrum because I wanted a new toy, I was actually rewarded with the toy. I knew I acted badly, but I still felt like I was loved, and that I was loved unconditionally, and afterwards I was overwhelmed by feelings of guilt. I never wanted toys ever again.

    I don't know how exactly to explain this, but I think I know why my boyfriend is acting the way he is. Perhaps it is because I've always been so 'rational' in my life decisions, and he understands it in a way -- but maybe he just needs that little bit more confirmation of that love before it can be the source of strength he needs in order to face life.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  10. #10
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Dear everyone. Thanks for the responses! You guys are very helpful


    I think you're right about the bolded. His situation right now is pretty stressful and the future seems very dark and uncertain, which is why I think I'm going to cut him some serious slack and trust that he doesn't mean to hurt me. You said you could relate to him -- would love to hear more about it if you don't mind!
    I'm an ENFP as you can see, who married young to an older INFJ. The relationship was unbalanced for many reasons besides age. As a result, I ended up taking a life path that badly disagreed with me and had little to do with what I wanted to do. Of course part of the problem is that I was totally out of touch with myself and my own wants/needs.

    INFJs tend to have very strong visions in life, so I latched onto those and figured (unconsciously) that if i didn't know what I was doing, I may as well please her. I went many years without centering or developing myself and being miserable and ignoring it. So I was simultaneously attempting to please her and get approval and blaming her for how empty I felt.

    She seemed the gateway to my happiness, so when I felt so profoundly unhappy.. it seemed to be her fault, somehow. I could only not help but think that I was unhappy because she didn't love me enough. This is a very easy idea to project on an INFJ, there's a reserve you have, and your ideas of how things should be feel strong and constraining if the other person feels like they have no power.

    This all resulted in very strange desperate attempts to somehow fix things by Te'ing, changing things, buying things, requesting things.. looking to her for approval, interpreting lack of approval as witholding of love. I don't like that I was that way, at all.

    The premise for the relationship was wrong in the first place, but maybe if I had figured out what was happening early we could of fixed it, we have kids and a lot of other things in common. But, by the time I knew what I needed, the well was already poisoned.

    There is my tale of woe.

Similar Threads

  1. If You Don't Do It, Someone Else Will
    By Obfuscate in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-27-2016, 08:00 PM
  2. Murkrow will do anything for cash.
    By murkrow in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-26-2009, 12:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO