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  1. #31
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Elfboy...??? Tell me one ENFP from history (and no Darth Vadar doesn't count)...that has presented with 'authority and command'? (is this a bad time to tell you that I don't even think you are ENFP? I think you are an ISFP 9w8).
    - Che Guevara (7w8 Sx/So)
    - Joan of Arc (1w? or 6w7 Sx/So)
    - Sean Penn (8w7 Sx/Sp)
    - Naomi Wolf (1w2 Sx/So)
    - Quentin Tarantino (7w8 So/Sx)
    - Richard Branson (7w8 So/Sx) he's not as fiery as the other people listed here, but he definitely has a natural authority about him
    - @Esoteric Wench (7w8 Sp/So)
    - also, if we were on personality cafe I could probably name you about 10 more from that forum

    possibly ENFP
    - King David (8w7 Sx/So)
    - Ron Paul (1w9 Sp/So)
    - Abigail Adams (1w2 So/Sx)

    notice, they're relatively unusual enneagram types (your typical ENFP 7w6, 9, or phobic 6 is not going to make the list)

    I'm going to answer the second part of this in my 3w4 vs 7w6 thread (if you haven't seen the video already, you're welcome to do so as well)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  2. #32
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow. This thread got all which way of type-ugly.

    Can't we just talk about the freakin' DRAGONS instead? Sigh.
    ??? Ahhh...does it count that I was laughing when I typed what I wrote?
    I don't know the character that Amargith is referring to in this thread...but I did identify with what she wrote and am an ENFP. I'm not generally known for my 'authority and command' though.

  3. #33
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I am, though only reluctantly when i have no other choice.

    I was hoping this thread would show thosethat have a hard time ( with a good reason for that matter) grasping why Fi is so hard to explain and why it has to go against the grain in such a selfishly seeming way without even a good explanation, why this can occur and how it is that the person can sometimes not even identify due to lack of concrete information why they cannot act any other way, no matter how much you value the opinions of those you love and how much it hurts to disappoint them.

    It is like they are asking you to be someone you are not, despite the fact that the concrete requests really dont seem all that hard to fulfil.

    Or, ya know, we could argue about his type. That works too.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Can't we just talk about the freakin' DRAGONS instead? Sigh.
    Conflicts are OK. People don't need to always get along.

    I think a difference between a hero Fe and an animus Fe would be the further break down of which relationships are worth it and which are not. Which lead to a positive outcome for the individual and which are a waste of time. How far do I go in sacrificing my time and self interest for interpersonal harmony and STILL love my Fe, and where do I draw the line. Animus Fe doesn't like drawing that line. A conscious Fe is much more practical so to speak.

    What do you think?


    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I'm not generally known for my 'authority and command' though.
    It's because you haven't seen yourself through the eyes of others, especially introverts.

    ENFPs in general seem aggressive, pushy and commanding to more introverted people. This forum is replete with such comments.

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Conflicts are OK. People don't need to always get along.
    Obviously.

    I simply discern between "constructive conflict" and "wasteful conflict."

    [quote]I think a difference between a hero Fe and an animus Fe would be the further break down of which relationships are worth it and which are not. Which lead to a positive outcome for the individual and which are a waste of time. How far do I go in sacrificing my time and self interest for interpersonal harmony and STILL love my Fe, and where do I draw the line. Animus Fe doesn't like drawing that line. A conscious Fe is much more practical so to speak.

    What do you think?[/quoet]

    I'm not really sure of the distinctions you are trying to make within Fe.

    In this particular thread, I quickly perceived that no one is going to walk away with their opinions changed, it's just a bash match... and I doubt anyone's been learning anything either. It's just a matter of, "Here's what he is because it fits with my identity!" vs "No he's not, because he operates like this!"

    This tends to be my typical hangup with ENFPs overall and even INFPs when they dig in on something. I just don't see the point of energy investment into that type of disagreement.

    And... honestly.... I would rather talk about the dragons.

    ENFPs in general seem aggressive, pushy and commanding to more introverted people. This forum is replete with such comments.
    True. And obviously this is a matter of experience, since the ENFP might have a different perception. But as an introvert, yes, I typically feel like my boundaries are being trod on in conflicts.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Conflicts are OK. People don't need to always get along.
    Obviously.

    I simply discern between "constructive conflict" and "wasteful conflict."

    [quote]I think a difference between a hero Fe and an animus Fe would be the further break down of which relationships are worth it and which are not. Which lead to a positive outcome for the individual and which are a waste of time. How far do I go in sacrificing my time and self interest for interpersonal harmony and STILL love my Fe, and where do I draw the line. Animus Fe doesn't like drawing that line. A conscious Fe is much more practical so to speak.

    What do you think?[/quoet]

    I'm not really sure of the distinctions you are trying to make within Fe.

    In this particular thread, I quickly perceived that no one is going to walk away with their opinions changed, it's just a bash match... and I doubt anyone's been learning anything either. It's just a matter of, "Here's what he is because it fits with my identity!" vs "No he's not, because he operates like this!"

    This tends to be my typical hangup with ENFPs overall and even INFPs when they dig in on something. I just don't see the point of energy investment into that type of disagreement.

    And... honestly.... I would rather talk about the dragons.

    ENFPs in general seem aggressive, pushy and commanding to more introverted people. This forum is replete with such comments.
    True. And obviously this is a matter of experience, since the ENFP might have a different perception. But as an introvert, yes, I typically feel like my boundaries are being trod on in conflicts.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - Che Guevara (7w8 Sx/So)
    - Joan of Arc (1w? or 6w7 Sx/So)
    - Sean Penn (8w7 Sx/Sp)
    - Naomi Wolf (1w2 Sx/So)
    - Quentin Tarantino (7w8 So/Sx)
    - Richard Branson (7w8 So/Sx) he's not as fiery as the other people listed here, but he definitely has a natural authority about him
    - @Esoteric Wench (7w8 Sp/So)
    - also, if we were on personality cafe I could probably name you about 10 more from that forum

    possibly ENFP
    - King David (8w7 Sx/So)
    - Ron Paul (1w9 Sp/So)
    - Abigail Adams (1w2 So/Sx)

    notice, they're relatively unusual enneagram types (your typical ENFP 7w6, 9, or phobic 6 is not going to make the list)

    I'm going to answer the second part of this in my 3w4 vs 7w6 thread (if you haven't seen the video already, you're welcome to do so as well)
    I actually didn't see this last night. I guess I was focusing on the other stuff that was/is being said (?)
    Che actually came to mind when I was typing my post. And what's interesting is while I think Joan of Arc is generally regarded as an INFP...I too have considered the possibility that she was an ENFP (I'm not so sure about the other individuals you listed). Still I'm not convinced that 'authority and command' are what I would attribute to ENFPs even in the cases I just mentioned. Like I know an ENFP e8...and while she is so strong and possesses a lot of what I guess would be described as 'raw power'...she still presents with or leads by inspiration (and say 'instilling enthusiasm' in others regarding whatever cause or task that needs to be completed). IDK I'll think more about it. I appreciate the list though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    It's because you haven't seen yourself through the eyes of others, especially introverts.
    ENFPs in general seem aggressive, pushy and commanding to more introverted people. This forum is replete with such comments.
    I have a hard time believing this is true overall. Merely considering various introverted leaders throughout history...and the fact that I've been 'pushed around' by more than one introvert in my day haha.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Conflicts are OK. People don't need to always get along.

    I think a difference between a hero Fe and an animus Fe would be the further break down of which relationships are worth it and which are not. Which lead to a positive outcome for the individual and which are a waste of time. How far do I go in sacrificing my time and self interest for interpersonal harmony and STILL love my Fe, and where do I draw the line. Animus Fe doesn't like drawing that line. A conscious Fe is much more practical so to speak.

    What do you think?




    It's because you haven't seen yourself through the eyes of others, especially introverts.

    ENFPs in general seem aggressive, pushy and commanding to more introverted people. This forum is replete with such comments.
    ENFPs are a very know it all type. They can be very aggressive, pushy, and commanding when it comes to competing with others.

    I grew up with an ENFP mom and as a kid you just ignore the pushyness that is ENFP. I still get it to this day about how and when in regards to my son and just life. I just ignore it as I do everyone else that tells me how/when to do things. I will do what I want and as I see fit, what others say are just data to add to my own data and I judge everything for myself. So I dont really see myself being pushed around by an ENFP. I walk off on my own, do my own thing and sometimes what they say is what I may end up doing and sometimes its not. I do my own thing though. When they push they find themselves alone in regards to myself. Other types like it and may flock to them.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #39
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Starry
    btw, to add to a previous reply to you, I wouldn't have included Darth Vader the list anyway. he does not have an heir of authority to him, is extremely whiny and lacks leadership skills.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    ENFPs are a very know it all type. They can be very aggressive, pushy, and commanding when it comes to competing with others.

    I grew up with an ENFP mom and as a kid you just ignore the pushyness that is ENFP. I still get it to this day about how and when in regards to my son and just life. I just ignore it as I do everyone else that tells me how/when to do things. I will do what I want and as I see fit, what others say are just data to add to my own data and I judge everything for myself. So I dont really see myself being pushed around by an ENFP. I walk off on my own, do my own thing and sometimes what they say is what I may end up doing and sometimes its not. I do my own thing though. When they push they find themselves alone in regards to myself. Other types like it and may flock to them.
    A typical Ti thing to say.
    I find it hard not to admire and envy this attitude.

    I wish I could say the same but most often I end up having to physically remove myself from the person to get this autonomy.

    An ESFP bulldozed me over with angry Fi-bully Te a today and I'm pretty careful to avoid her at all costs for the rest of my life. I rly hate it when they do this, esp. since I have absolutely nothing to do with her frustrations and she cant work them out herself and needs to bully somebody to feel better. Grrr

    So an ExFP would need less stimuli to get their Te riled up and go impact the world than an IxFP. The IxFP's Te would feel much stronger, crazier and even have a fanatical gleam in its eyes. A character who takes on a holy Te crusade for order, structure and fairness prolly has anima Te.

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