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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Difficulty being assertive to friends (INFJ)

emmapeel

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My biggest challenge in life right now is learning how to deal with friends/family that cross my boundaries and/or do minor hurtful things. I was wondering how other INFJ's deal with these kinds of situations.

It's fairly easy for me to handle major conflicts and to be assertive to strangers or casual acquaintances. I can also be quite stern with my husband. But I'm simply not capable to defend my boundaries and feelings against close friends and family. In such situations I get completely stuck in my own web of evasive behaviour: trying to ignore my feelings (turning them into ticking time bombs and forever repeating movies in my head), avoiding/delaying/postponing contact, avoiding situations that might repeat the hurtful situation, an occasional door-slam even... I know it's wrong, but I just don't dare to be assertive to them! I think that I may feel that my feelings are somehow 'invalid' and that they will point that out to me when confronted, adding to the initial hurt... I'd rather lose a friend than be hurt twice I suppose, but that sounds pretty stupid to me. So I'd really love to learn how to deal with such things properly and maturely. Any tips?
 

gromit

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I am not INFJ but do have a tendency to be non-confrontational. At some point I realized that some confrontations are actually constructive, though, that it's better to have a small confrontation upfront than to let a situation continue along its natural course... better for everyone!

Sometimes it seems like it is easier to say nothing and let it pass rather than bring up an issue. But people who care about you also care about how their actions are affecting you. A lot of times other people just don't even realize something is bothering you. When you present how you see it, then it gives them more information to take into account. The way that they consider that information/the way they act as a result tells you a lot about the kind of person/friend they are.

It also was important for me to develop self-respect, that what I feel is just as valid as what other people feel.



Again, this is not from an INFJ perspective, but I'm sure a lot of it is relevant to people in general.
 

JivinJeffJones

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Could you give an example?

I ask because in my experience sometimes INFJs have difficulty discerning the difference between someone violating a personal boundary and someone just doing something they don't like but isn't really any of their business.
 

cascadeco

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^That's an interesting point. I can see what you mean, re. maybe it just being something that the INFJ simply doesn't like, and shifts it to violating a boundary, even if it isn't violating a boundary. Hmm. I guess in this case it's the whole Control problem, which I think can take a LOT of IxxJ's a long while to let go of - to realize that hey, I can't control every aspect of what the other person does, and... WHY exactly do I want to/need to? etc.

Cecile said:
But I'm simply not capable to defend my boundaries and feelings against close friends and family. In such situations I get completely stuck in my own web of evasive behaviour: trying to ignore my feelings (turning them into ticking time bombs and forever repeating movies in my head), avoiding/delaying/postponing contact, avoiding situations that might repeat the hurtful situation, an occasional door-slam even... I know it's wrong, but I just don't dare to be assertive to them! I think that I may feel that my feelings are somehow 'invalid' and that they will point that out to me when confronted, adding to the initial hurt... I'd rather lose a friend than be hurt twice I suppose , but that sounds pretty stupid to me. So I'd really love to learn how to deal with such things properly and maturely. Any tips?

Honestly... I don't think there's an easy answer / easy tips. I truly think it's a matter of actually facing those unpleasant things, and facing the fact that you might be judged in a negative light / be called out on something. I think it's learning to be ok with that, and to let go of any pride and control of the situation. I think you've already kind of answered your question... it is about taking that risk of *maybe* being hurt, or *maybe* having how you look at something questioned. It's not easy stuff.

But I think in the long run it's healthier for you, and can lead YOU to a happier spot, to be more open about when something is bothering you, or to say 'No' to a certain request, without feeling guilty about it, or say you understand x, y, and z, but that you're sorry, you just can't do Q. I think in the long run if you're able to just let people know what's going on, even if conflict might happen, you also open the door for deeper relationships, with people you're even more compatible with. Meaning: If you're able to more confidently just show people who you are and what you are or aren't ok with, then those who DO love and appreciate you will respect that and won't shut you out for 'asserting yourself'.

It may mean that some of your current friendships could fizzle out, if you are all of a sudden showing sides of yourself that you never showed previously (and, in some ways it's understandable if those friendships would then end), but all relationships going forward would be built off of the new you... it's really a matter of being able to take how you are with Strangers - where you're more comfortable asserting yourself by the very fact that there's no fear or risk of loss - and beginning to translate that into your deeper friendships, and facing that fear, vulnerability, risk, the unknown, and potential conflict, which, with the right people, usually ends up deepening the relationship and making it more meaningful anyway.
 

kyli_ryan

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I can identify with the OP about this problem. I find that I have the same problem with my mother and "best" friends too. I think that I feel easily taken advantage of or easily dismissed a lot of the time, and I don't usually speak up about it. This has pretty much always been the case, but I'm learning to distance myself from their actions toward me and just react in the most rational way possible when I feel offended.

I think my main issue revolves around this idea of my feelings being "invalid" as well. I'm very upset when I feel I've been "dismissed," not only because it feels like a rejection, but also because if I try to ignore it, it puts me in the position of feeling "clingy" or something...
 

kyli_ryan

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I can identify with the OP about this problem. I find that I have the same problem with my mother and "best" friends too. I think that I feel easily taken advantage of or easily dismissed a lot of the time, and I don't usually speak up about it. This has pretty much always been the case, but I'm learning to distance myself from their actions toward me and just react in the most rational way possible when I feel offended.

I think my main issue revolves around this idea of my feelings being "invalid" as well. I'm very upset when I feel I've been "dismissed," not only because it feels like a rejection, but also because if I try to ignore it, it puts me in the position of feeling "clingy" or something...
 

21%

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I can totally identify with the OP. I usually solve the problem by having little external boundaries, but a lot of emotional/mental boundaries. My inner world is my own and no one can get in. I dont think this is ultimately healthy, though. Luckily my friends and family are really sensitive to my feelings.

In my relationship, however, for some reason I find myself more assertive...
 

emmapeel

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Interesting, interesting. I have to ponder on all your replies a bit more...

[MENTION=93]JivinJeffJones[/MENTION] asked for an example. Okay. This will be hard. I hope the person this is about is not on this forum. (if so, I hope she understands somehow...)

I'll try to explain the situation that sparked my wish to 'solve' this bit of my personality. It's actually a pretty good example of the sort of situations I find difficult to handle as it's made up from dozens of tiny situations that on their own don't seem to matter enough to fuzz about, but added up together are quite a big deal for me.

One of my best friends (I've known her for half my life, she thinks she's INFJ but I believe she's INTJ) has always been somewhat 'dominant-light'. Half a year ago she has given birth to her first child & she has turned into a 'nothing-but-a-mother' type of person. Good for her although I have to get used to the new her, especially because me and my husband have chosen to never have children and feel a bit awkward around small children. She knows this. Nevertheless she thinks I should have a child as well and just oozes 'you-will-change-your-mind-someday' kind of vibes. Okay, I'm used to that, many people openly doubt my (very well thought through) decision, whatever, their problem.

So far so good. Then she came to visit our new house a few months ago with her boyfriend and baby. (She lives 150 miles away, so we hardly see each other, maybe twice a year) That's when she completely claimed the house. (and my house is my private castle, many INFJ's can probably relate). During the tour around our new home she was constantly talking to her baby 'giving him stuff'. I have a little cosy bench in my very private workroom and she just exclaimed "Oh look [name baby], you can sleep here!" Okay... This happened a few times more during the tour. All the while the baby was drooling on my wooden floor, which she didn't notice or didn't care for. Okay... Once she was sitting in the living room with a cup of tea I secretly hopped around the house with a cleaning cloth to remove his spit. Then she asked me told me to take the baby on my lap. I've never even touched a baby so I told her that maybe this was not such a good idea as I have to take things very slow with babies. She insisted nevertheless, stating that if I was going to be his semi-official godmother that I ought to take him *now*. Okay... [I did retract myself as godmother a few weeks later, due to it being incompatible with my childless life, should have never said yes in the first place, but was flattered that she asked]. Then we had to talk about her baby for many, many hours. Then it started crying and she ordered her boyfriend to go upstairs with him to calm him down. Huh, you tell your boyfriend to go upstairs, *my* upstairs, without even consulting me? While you know how I feel about letting people in in my private space? Okay, I just escorted boyfriend and baby to a place upstairs I could live with. These kind of things went on and on until they left and left me exhausted, having felt like a visitor in my own home.

All the underlined okays are moments that I think I maybe should have or could have been more assertive. My parents and husband agree that she crossed some boundaries during her visit, so apparently my feelings are valid :D It's just the type of person she is. She very well knows how I feel about things (about babies, about letting people into my home), nevertheless she seems to just ignore it and do her own way. I realize she is very much in love with her baby right now, but does that mean that she can just ignore other people's obvious feelings?

A few days ago I received an e-mail in which she invites herself (including baby and boyfriend) to come round. I haven't replied yet and will reply that we will visit her home this time instead of the other way around, buying me some time to mentally prepare for her next visit. I'm also scared that she will never be an individual again, but the mother of a little family, travelling in a pack of three everywhere they go. I like her boyfriend and her baby to a decent extent, but I really don't need to see them everytime I see her. I can't possibly let a friendship be ruined by something innocent like a little baby, so I think this is the moment to bite the bullet and start being more assertive, but I don't know where to begin.

So. Where to begin?

[and yes, I did change my user name, I didn't expect to tell so much about myself on this forum and have to protect myself]
 

Starry

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Interesting, interesting. I have to ponder on all your replies a bit more...

JivinJeffJones asked for an example. Okay. This will be hard. I hope the person this is about is not on this forum. (if so, I hope she understands somehow...)

I'll try to explain the situation that sparked my wish to 'solve' this bit of my personality. It's actually a pretty good example of the sort of situations I find difficult to handle as it's made up from dozens of tiny situations that on their own don't seem to matter enough to fuzz about, but added up together are quite a big deal for me.

One of my best friends (I've known her for half my life, she thinks she's INFJ but I believe she's INTJ) has always been somewhat 'dominant-light'. Half a year ago she has given birth to her first child & she has turned into a 'nothing-but-a-mother' type of person. Good for her although I have to get used to the new her, especially because me and my husband have chosen to never have children and feel a bit awkward around small children. She knows this. Nevertheless she thinks I should have a child as well and just oozes 'you-will-change-your-mind-someday' kind of vibes. Okay, I'm used to that, many people openly doubt my (very well thought through) decision, whatever, their problem.

So far so good. Then she came to visit our new house a few months ago with her boyfriend and baby. (She lives 150 miles away, so we hardly see each other, maybe twice a year) That's when she completely claimed the house. (and my house is my private castle, many INFJ's can probably relate). During the tour around our new home she was constantly talking to her baby 'giving him stuff'. I have a little cosy bench in my very private workroom and she just exclaimed "Oh look [name baby], you can sleep here!" Okay... This happened a few times more during the tour. All the while the baby was drooling on my wooden floor, which she didn't notice or didn't care for. Okay... Once she was sitting in the living room with a cup of tea I secretly hopped around the house with a cleaning cloth to remove his spit. Then she asked me told me to take the baby on my lap. I've never even touched a baby so I told her that maybe this was not such a good idea as I have to take things very slow with babies. She insisted nevertheless, stating that if I was going to be his semi-official godmother that I ought to take him *now*. Okay... [I did retract myself as godmother a few weeks later, due to it being incompatible with my childless life, should have never said yes in the first place, but was flattered that she asked]. Then we had to talk about her baby for many, many hours. Then it started crying and she ordered her boyfriend to go upstairs with him to calm him down. Huh, you tell your boyfriend to go upstairs, *my* upstairs, without even consulting me? While you know how I feel about letting people in in my private space? Okay, I just escorted boyfriend and baby to a place upstairs I could live with. These kind of things went on and on until they left and left me exhausted, having felt like a visitor in my own home.

All the underlined okays are moments that I think I maybe should have or could have been more assertive. My parents and husband agree that she crossed some boundaries during her visit, so apparently my feelings are valid :D It's just the type of person she is. She very well knows how I feel about things (about babies, about letting people into my home), nevertheless she seems to just ignore it and do her own way. I realize she is very much in love with her baby right now, but does that mean that she can just ignore other people's obvious feelings?

A few days ago I received an e-mail in which she invites herself (including baby and boyfriend) to come round. I haven't replied yet and will reply that we will visit her home this time instead of the other way around, buying me some time to mentally prepare for her next visit. I'm also scared that she will never be an individual again, but the mother of a little family, travelling in a pack of three everywhere they go. I like her boyfriend and her baby to a decent extent, but I really don't need to see them everytime I see her. I can't possibly let a friendship be ruined by something innocent like a little baby, so I think this is the moment to bite the bullet and start being more assertive, but I don't know where to begin.

So. Where to begin?

[and yes, I did change my user name, I didn't expect to tell so much about myself on this forum and have to protect myself]

My sister is enneagram 1 (I think she is ISTJ but will sometimes test as INTJ so I go back and forth in my mind regarding her)...and honestly...I just don't go over to her apt. anymore or let her drive when we go out. And if the activity that we are doing involves 'using stuff'...I'll make damn sure we use my stuff haha (not her stuff heaven forbid)...because I JUST CAN'T KEEP TRACK of all of the rules concerning her space and property and stuff and on and on... Seriously, I'm NOT trying to be disrespectful to her. I honest to god just can't keep track of it all. See...I just don't have that kind of attachment to space and stuff. In my mind 'space and stuff' is 'space and stuff'...and does not take precedence over people...especially when the 'people situation' is temporary (a visit). <--- I'm not saying your feelings aren't valid. I don't believe feelings can be invalid - they're feelings. But I'm just attempting to point out that it *might not* be an issue of someone purposely over-stepping someone else's boundaries. <--- It's not being able to fully understand how far and deep the boundary goes. So I've just given-up...like other family members and the rest of her 'non-perfect' friends (remember I'm talking about my sister here).

All I'm saying...is maybe don't have her come over anymore...instead of losing a friend over something she might not totally be understanding (in spite of the fact you think she understands).
 

emmapeel

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[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] Thank you for that mirror. It's very helpful to read how someone who's completely different regarding to 'stuff and space' sees things.

Hm. I know I used to be rather rigid and with a lot of rules, which was confusing and annoying for others. At some point I simply couldn't keep track of my own rules anymore (let alone others) and became very inconsistent with them. So I made them a lot easier, for myself and for others (this took me a lot of time, but I did it). These days I only have one rule according to my stuff: "My stuff is mine, don't touch it. And if you want to touch it anyway, please just ask and I'll probably say yes. Just ask before you take/do." I don't have 'you can sit in the red chair, but not in the blue chair, unless it's Sunday or full moon' kind of rules.

In my defence in this particular example: it was above all the many drops that made the ocean. I could have easily chosen to not care about baby spit on my floor if the rest of the visit went smooth, I you understand what I mean. That's what makes being assertive so difficult in this case. When say something, when stay quiet.

One thing I just realised is that this particular friend is the only person in my inner circle that I've never been assertive to *ever*. I think I simply never dared to... Not even with the weird rules I used to have. (Unlike my very best friend who has suffered under my rules very much and now sometimes sighs 'you've changed so much, you are so much easier these days, yippie!') So maybe she simply doesn't know how I feel about these things. Although I already know that she doesn't do it on purpose to hurt me. She is the kind of person though to do this as a kind of tough love thing, to teach me how to be a 'better person' or something. She is an INxJ after all. Hmmmm... food for thought.
 

Starry

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[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] Thank you for that mirror. It's very helpful to read how someone who's completely different regarding to 'stuff and space' sees things.

Hm. I know I used to be rather rigid and with a lot of rules, which was confusing and annoying for others. At some point I simply couldn't keep track of my own rules anymore (let alone others) and became very inconsistent with them. So I made them a lot easier, for myself and for others (this took me a lot of time, but I did it). These days I only have one rule according to my stuff: "My stuff is mine, don't touch it. And if you want to touch it anyway, please just ask and I'll probably say yes. Just ask before you take/do." I don't have 'you can sit in the red chair, but not in the blue chair, unless it's Sunday or full moon' kind of rules.

In my defence in this particular example: it was above all the many drops that made the ocean. I could have easily chosen to not care about baby spit on my floor if the rest of the visit went smooth, I you understand what I mean. That's what makes being assertive so difficult in this case. When say something, when stay quiet.

One thing I just realised is that this particular friend is the only person in my inner circle that I've never been assertive to *ever*. I think I simply never dared to... Not even with the weird rules I used to have. (Unlike my very best friend who has suffered under my rules very much and now sometimes sighs 'you've changed so much, you are so much easier these days, yippie!') So maybe she simply doesn't know how I feel about these things. Although I already know that she doesn't do it on purpose to hurt me. She is the kind of person though to do this as a kind of tough love thing, to teach me how to be a 'better person' or something. She is an INxJ after all. Hmmmm... food for thought.

Okay...so you actually haven't asserted yourself with this person. Ummm...I admit I am a little confused merely because higher-up you indicated that she knows how you feel with regards to your home, privacy, stuff, little-humans and little-humans barfing all over the place...

See now, my sister does not assert herself (and I actually think this is a common e1 trait and perhaps a IXXJ trait? -idk)...because she believes people should already know without her telling them. Like she totally thinks her rules are the 'standard rules of conduct and human decency' and any breech is a purposeful violation. But it sounds like maybe you don't? That you at times question the validity of how you feel? The thing is though...is that is how you feel. If you don't want someone coming over into your space with a baby...that's okay. It is okay for you to express that...and it doesn't need to be 'understood' by others. You can also even say..."I am so happy for you and your new life. And I would like to set aside some time that we can spend alone."
 

JivinJeffJones

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Hmm, looks like you'll definitely want to be the visitor rather than the host. And it'll probably only get worse as the offspring becomes mobile. It sounds like you weren't completely ready for the visit and were caught off-guard. If she visits again you can do things like prepare a sleeping area for the baby, play area, designated changing surface etc (I don't really know what babies need myself). This should come across as welcoming rather than damage control. It also makes your boundaries clearer and easier to non-dramatically defend.

But twice a year doesn't sound too bad to me.
 

Tiltyred

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I know exactly how you feel. I was cringing and flinching the whole time I read your post. It's definitely a problem. What it comes down to is, you may have lost yourself a friend. Unless you are always the visitor, but that brings its own host of trouble, too. If they come to your house again, YOU say where the baby goes, and YOU say the upstairs is off limits to visitors, etc. In a nice way, you know. "Let's let the baby lie down here -- look, I made a little space just for it," etc. But you can't make people understand how you feel because they just don't. I can think of several experiences I've had like this -- friends were coming over for dinner and one was bringing his mother -- the dinner was for his mother -- I was cooking, it was at my house -- I had everything planned and set to the very last detail to run like clockwork, and the younger woman wanted to come in the kitchen with me, set up her blender, make drinks ... the blender spilled all over the counter and floor, and she was in my way the entire time ... she wanted to help, but she'd cut vegetables for half a second and then stand there talking and waving the knife around, throwing my timing completely off ... I was SO. FUCKING. MISERABLE I can't even describe it. ..... Othe friends, the wife would use the bathroom, later I'd go into the bathroom and find her long black hair in my hair brush and just go off, and she would look shocked and say she wouldn't mind if I used HER hair brush if I came to her house, and I'd be like, I would not touch your things! I don't want to use your hairbrush. I'm asking you not to use mine! and I started to feel like I had to lock everything up before these people came over or else they'd just act like it was theirs and use it ... another friend went around opening things constantly. Little decorative boxes, sometimes drawers ... it made me nuts.

I don't know what to advise you, but I sympathize mightily.

P.S. Your friend is in the grip of some very powerful hormones right now. FWIW
 

PeaceBaby

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So. Where to begin?

hmmm, maybe this calls for a change of perspective:

1.) Your friend has a new baby. Naturally that would be expected to be the predominant theme of your visit.
2.) With a new baby, she still drove 150 miles to see YOU. You are that special to her.
3.) She attempted to help you feel comfortable with the baby by interacting in your space and encouraging you to engage and participate.
4.) It's even possible she saw you were ill-prepared in making a "baby friendly space" and attempted to graciously compensate by declaring little things like, "Oh the baby could sleep here."
5.) Are you sure she "knows" about your feelings to their full extent ... or that she knows about your rules? Really?

This has nothing to do with being assertive. It has much more to do with you wanting to exert full control over your environment, and since it's your home, you do have the right to do that. But the expectation that people should know what your unwritten rules are and your unspoken feelings is quite unfair, wouldn't you agree? You expect they should read your body language and facial expressions and even your emotions to pick up your distress. But you KNOW most people are just not wired that way and it's not going to happen; even with this dear friend of yours, who's attention is now hormonally fixated on this new baby - nature even helps create that mini-obsession-love-affair to enhance the maternal bond. In this situation even a dear friend can lose focus on YOU and perhaps even feel justified it's on HER.

I guess the advice I have to offer is that if you don't want someone touching your stuff, you have to just say it nicely with a smile on your face. 90% of reasonable people will understand this. The best thing is just laying the rules out with cheer rather than consternation. Presenting guidelines without that cheer, with negative energy, will only solicit the negative reactions of others in return. Is it possible for you to have some levity in regards to these types of situations? If you nicely said, "Oh, that's not really the best thing for the baby, I have some great toys downstairs" I can't imagine your guest not happily following you there. Even think of them as DIVERSIONS, distractions, not rules, it might help you feel less strict in their delivery. Think of a dozen diversions. Steer people towards them.

To add a little extra, it does seem like this visit caught you unprepared to a degree, not fully anticipating what the visit would involve. And I understand this is more to due to your inexperience with kids than any kind of deliberate negligence on your part. I suspect though in the future you will make a better guest than a hostess in this friendship - this baby will only get bigger and rowdier and it won't bode well with you having a home that's not child-friendly.

Thanks for sharing your story. And good luck. I hope there's some useful info to take away. :)
 

cafe

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I'm a total slob with a husband, four kids, two cats, and a dog, in my 1200 sq ft, 1 bath house so you'd think I'd be totally laid back about other people coming over. It turns out I'm really not. I kind of can't have outside people in my space very long without getting twitchy.
 

Usehername

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My parents and husband agree that she crossed some boundaries during her visit, so apparently my feelings are valid :D

How could she cross boundaries if you didn't construct any boundaries? They don't exist until you invent them.

I live in the desert but come from winter wonderland, so I get acquaintances, nevermind friends and family, visiting all the time, and it's worked to just name my expectations. (Which are more along the lines of, "you can't drive my car if you've had more than 2 drinks for a male or 1 for a female; no random people you've just met are allowed in my home," rather than baby issues).
 

Viridian

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It's almost eerie how the NFPs and INFJs have their respective views so neatly divided here. :shock:

Maybe that's just a coincidence?
 
G

Ginkgo

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My biggest challenge in life right now is learning how to deal with friends/family that cross my boundaries and/or do minor hurtful things. I was wondering how other INFJ's deal with these kinds of situations.

It's fairly easy for me to handle major conflicts and to be assertive to strangers or casual acquaintances. I can also be quite stern with my husband. But I'm simply not capable to defend my boundaries and feelings against close friends and family. In such situations I get completely stuck in my own web of evasive behaviour: trying to ignore my feelings (turning them into ticking time bombs and forever repeating movies in my head), avoiding/delaying/postponing contact, avoiding situations that might repeat the hurtful situation, an occasional door-slam even... I know it's wrong, but I just don't dare to be assertive to them! I think that I may feel that my feelings are somehow 'invalid' and that they will point that out to me when confronted, adding to the initial hurt... I'd rather lose a friend than be hurt twice I suppose, but that sounds pretty stupid to me. So I'd really love to learn how to deal with such things properly and maturely. Any tips?

I know an INFJ who behaves the same way. It's very frustrating because I would prefer her to be honest about her feelings, but it's like when she senses my preference for her honesty, she doesn't want to vocalize her feelings because it would somehow be of my influence. Then, she creates excuses and even outright lies to avoid what would make her feel uncomfortable, which, ironically, is instigated by her feeling that her feelings take priority. In the end, the only thing she can be accountable for is dishonesty and evasion regardless of her circumstances; it's as though the only time she's remotely forthcoming about her emotional life is when I'm not paying attention, which of course leads to her being unheard, repeating the cycle of selfish "selflessness". So it's like, why would you ever want to contact a friend who doesn't allow themselves to even exist?
 
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