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  1. #41
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My problem is more with being able to predict how things are going to turn out if a person takes a particular action. Sometimes this is not that much of a super power -- anybody can see it. Sometimes my guesses are more accurate than the average bear's.

    What ends up happening is that I keep watching them walk into obvious (to me) train-wrecks, sometimes dragging innocent parties along for the ride. Eventually, I start to get irritated because they will tell me about their horrible situation and sometimes ask for help, which, to a point, I don't mind. However, after several years of "Who didn't see that coming?" I get disgusted and it becomes difficult to pretend like I'm surprised and sympathetic that things turned out so badly. Sometimes it gets to the point where I just can't bring myself to watch anymore.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #42
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I personally must say that the first thing I think when I read those threads like "We NFs have insight into people" is mentally insane.

    First of all you need a lot of life experience to have insight into people and that isnt achieved just because a mbti test scored you nf. And second of all this whole "we" mentally reminds me of the borg collective. I find that thought as frightening as going to churches for sunday messes.

    I know, I am not helping.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #43
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I personally must say that the first thing I think when I read those threads like "We NFs have insight into people" is mentally insane.

    First of all you need a lot of life experience to have insight into people and that isnt achieved just because a mbti test scored you nf. And second of all this whole "we" mentally reminds me of the borg collective. I find that thought as frightening as going to churches for sunday messes.

    I know, I am not helping.
    Haha, how humble of you.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #44
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    It frightens people. "Why is it that you get the scoop on everyone else, yet no one can have the same on you?" is what I've heard. I think what makes it most upsetting is that we can intuit and feel out things that were meant to be private, even things that they didn't know, with scant information, if any at all. After being around a highly attuned NF, you'll feel how the Wizard felt when his ruse was unveiled.
    I have a tendency to want to balance that, and so I have to be careful to not share too much. Sometimes my mistake in trying to relate is that, even though I don't say much, if I start sharing I can bare my soul. This is why I tend to be completely private socially, but when I get the feeling that I want to connect with someone, I can end up being too exposed because I have trouble relating to the acquaintance social interaction. What I use for acquaintance interaction is strictly professional projects. I don't hang out and joke, talk about sports or gossip. If I have a conversation it tends to be unguarded.

    This creates a social dichotomy between extreme private and completely exposed. This is the huge problem with trying to create friendships and just interact in the world because so much of social interaction does not exist on either end of that spectrum.

    Edit: I will that since I was about 13 I have spent easily 10-20 hours a week just analyzing people and subjective systems inside my head. So, even though a young NF can certainly lack insight, it should also be taken into account that a 16-year-old NF could have spent well over 2,000 hours practicing analyzing and understanding other people and may have already read several books on the topic.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My problem is more with being able to predict how things are going to turn out if a person takes a particular action. Sometimes this is not that much of a super power -- anybody can see it. Sometimes my guesses are more accurate than the average bear's.

    What ends up happening is that I keep watching them walk into obvious (to me) train-wrecks, sometimes dragging innocent parties along for the ride. Eventually, I start to get irritated because they will tell me about their horrible situation and sometimes ask for help, which, to a point, I don't mind. However, after several years of "Who didn't see that coming?" I get disgusted and it becomes difficult to pretend like I'm surprised and sympathetic that things turned out so badly. Sometimes it gets to the point where I just can't bring myself to watch anymore.
    My ex-wife ENFJ give me "help" with insights. I dont really listen nor do I care because while they are true, I dont really care about what she cares about. I also have NFPs who try to help me out by telling me how women are. From my experience NFJs will backstab you different then NFPs. They will hurt you different. They are completely different people in how they think/feel/interact.

    The funniest thing I heard is when a women went to a pre-marriage counseling session and came out thinking "I have a lot more issues(in regard to who they are in the relationship) then I thought, WTF". And this was something that was told to me, not heresay or anything like that.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    First of all you need a lot of life experience to have insight into people
    I hope I'm not taking this one out of context, but it's worth expounding upon.

    Any insight or mindset that isn't checked against the real world and refined through experience will, over time, become misaligned to the point of uselessness. But that refinement process also requires paying attention.

    So, when it comes to gaining people-insight, one actually has to pay attention to other people, to social dynamics, and to the effects of one's actions on a relationship. Giving a shit about other people also helps, as it serves as another motivator to pay attention.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I personally must say that the first thing I think when I read those threads like "We NFs have insight into people" is mentally insane.

    First of all you need a lot of life experience to have insight into people and that isnt achieved just because a mbti test scored you nf. And second of all this whole "we" mentally reminds me of the borg collective. I find that thought as frightening as going to churches for sunday messes.

    I know, I am not helping.
    It's ok. We understand where you're coming from.

  8. #48
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmommy View Post
    It's ok. We understand where you're coming from.
    Ey dont play that card !

    I've been hanging around the NF forums for almost 4 years now I think but the insights spoken so often about I havent found so often. Normally I have to strip NF posts of 95% of its text because its irrelevant before I find the core message and then the core message most often is so banal that I think ironically: ok that was a profound statement.

    On the other hand tho regarding my own personal problems, I have found the greatest help in the NF forums.

    So here is a contradiction, which for sure is a problem of mine not NFs. Since I usually dont judge people, I dont ponder so much about that contradiction. What I ponder nevertheless about are people saying "I have insight into people". Somehow that sounds arrogant to me. Tho I run around and say "I rock at mathematics", which is prolly arrogant to a lot of other people.

    What to draw from this is the following: obviously you start to think about people being arrogant when you yourself are good or bad in a given topic. That would make sense following a bit @bologna's logic. But if someone who has "insight into people" would know that there are people who think he is arrogant when he says that he has "insight into people" would he still say it then ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I hope I'm not taking this one out of context, but it's worth expounding upon.

    Any insight or mindset that isn't checked against the real world and refined through experience will, over time, become misaligned to the point of uselessness. But that refinement process also requires paying attention.

    So, when it comes to gaining people-insight, one actually has to pay attention to other people, to social dynamics, and to the effects of one's actions on a relationship. Giving a shit about other people also helps, as it serves as another motivator to pay attention.

    Its so strange to think that just paying attention is insight. I guess to me its considered common knowledge. Maybe that is insight. I dont attribute it to being an N trait though. Its definately not intuition.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    But if someone who has "insight into people" would know that there are people who think he is arrogant when he says that he has "insight into people" would he still say it then ?
    Ah, cool. I'd say that the answer to your question is: yes! Coming across as knowledgeable--or even as arrogant--can be a tactic in social dynamics.

    Of course, if a person claims to have insight into people but doesn't know that he comes across as arrogant.. .. he probably doesn't have as much insight as he thinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Its so strange to think that just paying attention is insight. I guess to me its considered common knowledge. Maybe that is insight. I dont attribute it to being an N trait though. Its definately not intuition.
    I'll clarify, here: paying attention isn't itself insight--but it's necessary to pay attention to what life throws at you in order to gain or refine insight. That is, it's a matter of taking in information and also processing it correctly.

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