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    Default 1% P

    A friend of mine has typed as ENFJ but only 1% J. I mistyped the original post so the title doesn't make any sense. Sorry. My question is, does this make her borderline P?

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    Are you saying your friend DOESN'T have a tiny P-ness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Are you saying your friend DOESN'T have a tiny P-ness?
    HA! No, I'm pretty sure her's is bigger than mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by corey_vann View Post
    HA! No, I'm pretty sure her's is bigger than mine!
    Pics or it didn't happen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by corey_vann View Post
    My question is, does this make her borderline P?
    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: P and J are an MBTI "invention". The MBTI was developed by people with close to no education on the matter, inferior thinking (one was INFP, the other INFJ), etc.

    There is a ton of evidence this is forced dichotomization and it screws up any statistical data you might want to work with.

    I personally have no respect for the MBTI and its J vs. P bs because of the above reasons and many others.

    The MBTI has an NF bias and was developed by two NFs.

    Socionics has an NT bias and was developed by an ENTP. I'd recommend the latter for you as an ENTJ. It's more straightforward and practical and rational, also hurtful and not very uplifting, there is a strong emphasis on a type's weaknesses, etc.

    MBTI is a waste of time unless you want to feel good about yourself and come out convinced yours is the most awesome and amazing type and everything is going to be just peachy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: P and J are an MBTI "invention". The MBTI was developed by people with close to no education on the matter, inferior thinking (one was INFP, the other INFJ), etc.

    There is a ton of evidence this is forced dichotomization and it screws up any statistical data you might want to work with.

    I personally have no respect for the MBTI and its J vs. P bs because of the above reasons and many others.

    The MBTI has an NF bias and was developed by two NFs.

    Socionics has an NT bias and was developed by an ENTP. I'd recommend the latter for you as an ENTJ. It's more straightforward and practical and rational, also hurtful and not very uplifting, there is a strong emphasis on a type's weaknesses, etc.
    You don't respect the MBTI but you are using his/her MBTI type as the basis upon which to recommend a different typology system? So you respect it enough to trust it for that purpose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    You don't respect the MBTI but you are using his/her MBTI type as the basis upon which to recommend a different typology system? So you respect it enough to trust it for that purpose?
    Is this the fabled ENFP trickster Ti?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    MBTI is a waste of time unless you want to feel good about yourself and come out convinced yours is the most awesome and amazing type and everything is going to be just peachy.
    Yes, mbti is wish fulfillment and is used to manipulate the gullible and the vulnerable.

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    This is one of the reasons I like the cognitive functions interpretation - in its light, J and P actually make sense.

    @corey_vann - According to the cognitive functions view, our MBTI letters don't just indicate cognitive preferences on dichotomous scales; they indicate preferences in broad patterns of thinking. An ENTJ is Extraverted, iNtuitive, Thinking, and Judging, according to the baseline MBTI. However:

    We can take that a step further and break it down, saying that we know this person is a J, which means they extravert their Judging (decision-making) preference - they use external-to-the-mind reorganization as a primary means to achieve their goals - and in this case, the ENTJ's decision-making preference is Thinking, so they prefer to engage the cognitive pattern of Extraverted Thinking (Te) - thinking about how logical organization of systems, processes, and objects in the external world can facilitate their goals.

    Then we can take the other preference, the Perceiving (information intake) preference - the ENTJ prefers iNtuition - and infer that the ENTJ uses Introverted iNtuition (Ni) - internal focus on future envisioning, forecasting, predicting - to support their Extraverted Thinking, since they must have a primarily-preferred introverted thought pattern, too. The ENTJ is extraverted, so they lead with the extraverted function, and follow with the introverted: thus they can be classified as TeNi. (To extrapolate 4-letter code from the function shorthand, we know that Te is an extraverted Judging function, so we get E__J, specifically Thinking, so we get E_TJ, and Ni is N, so we get ENTJ.)

    This is significant because it differentiates types based on more than just 2-scale preferences: we begin to better understand similarities between ENTJs (TeNi) and ENFJs (FeNi) because we know they both manipulate the external world (ENTJ the world of operations (Te); ENFJ the world of people relations (Fe)) to facilitate their goals, as guided by their inner visions and predictions (Ni). We also begin to better understand the differences between ENTJ (TeNi) and ENTP (NeTi), who, despite being only 1 letter apart, are very different because they have two completely opposite ways of focusing and goal pursuit.

    As a P, ENTP (NeTi) is not nearly as motivated to reorganize his external circumstances to suit his needs. The P outlook - extraverted Perceiving - is to take in large amounts of information from the environment and reorganize our internal schemata to facilitate our goals. Js are more initiating, whereas Ps focus more on how to appropriately respond to situations. To get into the functions, an ENTP is an Extraverted Perceiver, which means he cognitively leads with Extraverted iNtuition - identifying connections, patterns, broad concepts - and supports that with Introverted Thinking - his decision-making process - which assesses logical validity. In comparison to the ENTP, ENTJ is much more goal-oriented and self-starting: ENTJ generally pursues results while ENTP generally pursues novel ideas. ENTJ is also more narrow-sighted (less time for information intake) and more behaviorally rigid.

    So to finally get back to your question, in function theory, the strength of your Jness or Pness (groan) has to do with the balance of functions. If your J (T or F) function is much stronger than your P (N or S) function, then you are a strong J. If they are similar, you are a weaker J - because you'll be spending more time on Perception, on information intake, and less time on external judgment calls. How much concentration does your ENFJ (FeNi) friend put into her external people-environment - into motivating, leading, mentoring, facilitating, mediating, etc.? That will indicate strong Extraverted Feeling (Fe) and therefore a strong J. How much concentration does she put into analyzing situations, identifying trends, predicting future occurrences? That will indicate strong Introverted iNtuition (Ni), and therefore a weaker J.

    The interesting thing is, if she's a weak J, that doesn't make her closer to ENFP - NeFi - it makes her closer to INFJ - NiFe. My best friend is actually a Ni-heavy / weak-J ENFJ. Her dad is an INTJ, and so she grew up with him strongly encouraging her Ni. She spends a lot of time analyzing, assessing, and future-planning - though she's still an extravert at the core.

    Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense, and I'll clarify what I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Is this the fabled ENFP trickster Ti?
    Inferior Thinking!

    (this is fun :p)

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