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  1. #131
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    So far, I consider what you've said here to be quite the example of tunnel-vision as well, TBH, and I see that you've chosen not to address my pointing that out to you before.
    Fresh my memory, where did you do that? I often unintentionally miss certain points here or there in order to keep up with the discussion.

  2. #132
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well I've admitted to focusing on the characteristics of INTJs that piss me off here. Of course Ive had more positive experiences with this type.



    Well it's the best way I could describe it.



    I would agree.



    Yes it does.



    I actually agree, and I actually expressed this earlier somewhat. In fact Im pretty much in agreement here.




    Well that's why I pointed that out, so people would get an idea of where Im coming from; to dispel any notion that Im just out to bash INTJs. It's more or less venting, not to be taken too seriously.

    There are plenty of INTJs I get along with quite well.
    Okay, now it makes sense, then. So, I can gather that you're specifically focused on what traits of INTJ's bother you, right? In that case, the things you're pointing out make sense, and I hope that a few INTJ's manage to explain them to you in a way that helps you truly realize that these things aren't intended the way you tend to perceive them, so that it doesn't rub you the wrong way as often in your dealings with them. I hope this turns out well for you.

  3. #133
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Fresh my memory, where did you do that? I often unintentionally miss certain points here or there in order to keep up with the discussion.
    Allow me to quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Utyuun
    Quote Originally Posted by peguy
    if it's necessary for you to tear it apart, then you really don't grasp the point - you missed it big time.
    So if we disagree with your point or find it's not valid and point that out to you...we don't grasp the point...that sounds an aweful lot like what you said of us in the first quote.
    At least bad logical arguments can be refuted. Claiming that an argument is 'mystical' and therefore cannot be torn apart is a cop-out in debate. It's like saying you've won before anybody gets a chance to move.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Okay, now it makes sense, then. So, I can gather that you're specifically focused on what traits of INTJ's bother you, right?
    At the moment yes. I did mention a difference between INTJs and INFJs; claiming that INTJs can better articulate their standpoints while INFJs usually can only articulate the tip of the iceberg.

    I meant this to be taken as a complement to INTJs. Indeed I find it helpful to have an INTJs as allies in debates. To use a military analogy; I tend to be more the amoured spearhead, and INTJs tend to be more the heavy infantry. The former can strike fast and deep, but leaves its flanks exposed. It needs the infantry to come up the rear and consolidate the gains. I dont know if this makes sense, it's just how I see it.


    In that case, the things you're pointing out make sense, and I hope that a few INTJ's manage to explain them to you in a way that helps you truly realize that these things aren't intended the way you tend to perceive them, so that it doesn't rub you the wrong way as often in your dealings with them. I hope this turns out well for you.
    Of course. At the moment though I just a little cautious about getting too personal with INTJs. I seem more comfortable dealing with them on a more impersonal level. There's a saying that INFJs are hard on the outside, soft on the inside(which is true in my case).

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    At least bad logical arguments can be refuted. Claiming that an argument is 'mystical' and therefore cannot be torn apart is a cop-out in debate. It's like saying you've won before anybody gets a chance to move.
    That's not how it is at all. I guess to borrow the wording of Pascal; you can certainly challenge a "mystical" argument and show how another perspective is more correct, but you cannot ever fully refute it 100%.

    Now Pascal said this in regards to arguing about the existence of God. You can prove to an atheist that it's reasonable to believe there is a God, but you cannot ever fully prove his existence. That issue can only be decided through the faith of that individual.

    In this context, logic is not useless, but it has its limits. Example: I cannot prove God's existence via logic, I can only present reasons to believe there is a God through logic. But ultimately whether or not one chooses to believe in God is a decision made beyond logic.

  6. #136
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    People will believe as they please when it comes to God. The only things reasonable for debate are the things right in front of us.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    People will believe as they please when it comes to God. The only things reasonable for debate are the things right in front of us.
    Well as one INFJ, GK Chesterton, once noted: one's view of eternal things colours one's views on everything else. That's my take on it.

    Another INFJ, Martin Buber, also expressed this: "The world is not comprehensible, but it is embraceable: through the embracing of one of its beings."

    Which of course keeps bringing us back to the main point here: INTJs and INFJs view the world differently.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There's a saying that INFJs are hard on the outside, soft on the inside(which is true in my case).
    It's kind of funny that you mentioned that. I'm finding that INTJs are ridiculously hard on the outside and almost scarily soft on the inside. I think the main difference is that the INTJs shell is way more thicker than an INFJs because what they're protecting is that much more fragile.

    And god forbid that you throw any of their harsh comments back at them. Cause it's not a personal attack when they say it, but of course coming from me it is. :rolli:

    Still, I rather like them though.

  9. #139
    Senior Member MrRandom's Avatar
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    Well... I ended up using INFJs' special move, The Doorslam, against the only INTJ I knew. That preeeetty much sums it up.

    Nah, I wish I knew more of them. Not all of them can be obnoxious.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereza View Post
    It's kind of funny that you mentioned that. I'm finding that INTJs are ridiculously hard on the outside and almost scarily soft on the inside. I think the main difference is that the INTJs shell is way more thicker than an INFJs because what they're protecting is that much more fragile.

    And god forbid that you throw any of their harsh comments back at them. Cause it's not a personal attack when they say it, but of course coming from me it is. :rolli:
    Ahh man, if I got paid everytime this happened with the one INTJ girl I knew. LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRandom View Post
    Well... I ended up using INFJs' special move, The Doorslam, against the only INTJ I knew. That preeeetty much sums it up.
    Likewise in my case.


    Anyways, today at work I gave considerable thought to this issue. I'm too tired to articulate it much, but it goes into what others have said here. Hopefully when I regain some energy.

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