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  1. #41
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    They are often dependent, but seldom dependables.
    Wha?

  2. #42
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Best thing to do is to just tell them what to do.
    Agreed, actually. Hinting at or making a task seem like it has little priority vastly reduces the % chance of it getting done.

  3. #43
    ISFJophile zelo1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    My dependability depends and occasionally deepens.
    Dependability is the ability to be sufficiently organised that when you promise something will happen in the future it actually does.

    I regard myself as very dependable. The reasons for that are:
    1. My P is not extreme - in fact in my primary relationship I'm the J.
    2. I care about the person to whom I'm making a promise.
    3. If I'm likely to forget something important I make a retrievable note about it somewhere - such as in Outlook.
    4. I have a natural aversion to letting down others I care about.
    At another level I can be very non-dependable. This is the level at which deadlines given to me are artificial nonsenses designed simply for control. This doesn't of course happen with friends - only at work and when dealing with officialdom. So:
    5. I am dependable when the person relying on me deserves my dependability.
    Cognitive functions:
    Fi (95%); Ti (90%); Ne (75%); Fe (60%); Ni (50%); Si (50%); Te (15%); Se (5%)

    "INFP values but INTP skills" describes me best of all

  4. #44
    Junior Member njarosz's Avatar
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    Though I do have a stronger P, I feel that I should always fulfill my responsibilities to those around me, especially those that are important to me. I can get myself to do what I should-if not more than what I should- for those around me.

  5. #45
    Senior Member ms.behaving's Avatar
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    A touching speech about "do good to feel good" can help inspire an NFP to follow through.
    - MB

  6. #46
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    A touching speech about why I should devote my time and energy to your cause instead of the 20 other things I'm working on can help inspire me to follow through.



    I've already made my personal strength/weakness/definitions post, so now I'll throw a more group-oriented opinion in. I think that most people aren't aware that even for those of us NFPs with more duty-oriented enneatypes - 1, 2, 3, 6 - we find it challenging to deal with the level of practical detail, consistent focus, time precision, and time estimation required in follow-through. Most of us seem to learn techniques like not agreeing to take on responsibilities unless we absolutely know we can make good on them, using organizational tools, and trying to contribute most early on in a project. We learn how to become dependable because we learn how to work with J-style planning (precise TPs also have a leg up here).

    It's not like we're careless or airheaded, but our attention operates in a more holistic, project-oriented way - we become highly focused for short bursts of time, and then recover later. It's frustrating how previously-planned activities interrupt our maximal-production flow during projects or our peaceful mental rest during recovery - this might be what we mean when we say that Ps are "go-with-the-flow": we structure our mental energy around tasks instead of around time scheduling.

    In my opinion, one of the best usages of typology is in predicting mental energy load and how it will impact people and task flow. It's just not an NFP's forte to be an action-oriented detail closer - it requires so much cognition that we aren't as used to using and aren't as skilled at handling. Put your NFP on the creative development team and your STJ in charge of following through and you'll get twice the output for the same amount of effort. Don't try to convince them into taking on a bunch of detailed responsibility. Give them one complex, self-contained project and expect them to excel instead of giving them a list of tasks and wondering if they'll get it all done, much less done on time. And just assume that they're going to be running 5 minutes late, so then you can be pleasantly surprised if they're actually on time. Yes, it'd be great if we could all be thorough and consistently attentive and time-oriented, but NFPs do possess gifts that other types lack. Might as well play to our strengths instead of harping on our challenges.

  7. #47
    Senior Member ms.behaving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    A touching speech about why I should devote my time and energy to your cause instead of the 20 other things I'm working on can help inspire me to follow through.

    When you put that way, I can't say I blame you. *smile*
    - MB

  8. #48
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms.behaving View Post
    When you put that way, I can't say I blame you. *smile*
    I wasn't trying to be horribly cheeky, but that was my immediate thought, so I figured I'd post it.

    I think that's really how it feels for us though. I assume other NFPs are like me and are always finding new projects to dive into... and I always get all caught up in one and am like OH DARN THAT THINGY WAS TODAY. BUT I WANT TO KEEP WORKING ON STUDYING THE ENNEAGRAM. Or whatever new thing I'm into.

    It's true that an ethics-based speech will probably sway us though!

  9. #49
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    A touching speech about why I should devote my time and energy to your cause instead of the 20 other things I'm working on can help inspire me to follow through.



    I've already made my personal strength/weakness/definitions post, so now I'll throw a more group-oriented opinion in. I think that most people aren't aware that even for those of us NFPs with more duty-oriented enneatypes - 1, 2, 3, 6 - we find it challenging to deal with the level of practical detail, consistent focus, time precision, and time estimation required in follow-through. Most of us seem to learn techniques like not agreeing to take on responsibilities unless we absolutely know we can make good on them, using organizational tools, and trying to contribute most early on in a project. We learn how to become dependable because we learn how to work with J-style planning (precise TPs also have a leg up here).

    It's not like we're careless or airheaded, but our attention operates in a more holistic, project-oriented way - we become highly focused for short bursts of time, and then recover later. It's frustrating how previously-planned activities interrupt our maximal-production flow during projects or our peaceful mental rest during recovery - this might be what we mean when we say that Ps are "go-with-the-flow": we structure our mental energy around tasks instead of around time scheduling.

    In my opinion, one of the best usages of typology is in predicting mental energy load and how it will impact people and task flow. It's just not an NFP's forte to be an action-oriented detail closer - it requires so much cognition that we aren't as used to using and aren't as skilled at handling. Put your NFP on the creative development team and your STJ in charge of following through and you'll get twice the output for the same amount of effort. Don't try to convince them into taking on a bunch of detailed responsibility. Give them one complex, self-contained project and expect them to excel instead of giving them a list of tasks and wondering if they'll get it all done, much less done on time. And just assume that they're going to be running 5 minutes late, so then you can be pleasantly surprised if they're actually on time. Yes, it'd be great if we could all be thorough and consistently attentive and time-oriented, but NFPs do possess gifts that other types lack. Might as well play to our strengths instead of harping on our challenges.
    I pretty much agree with everything @skylights wrote here. +1

    Quote Originally Posted by ms.behaving View Post
    A touching speech about "do good to feel good" can help inspire an NFP to follow through.
    Yeah, this is pretty much true.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  10. #50
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    When I ask my ISTP fiance if I'm dependable, he gives me this coy look that communicates something like, "You're kidding right?" To him (who is very dependable in a traditional sense) I seem very flighty at first glance. What baffles him about me the most is that just because I say I'm going to do something / want something / like something doesn't mean I'm actually going to do it / want it / like it the next day. For him, dependable means a 1.0 correlation between what you say and what you do. I'm just not built that way. I say stuff all the time that I later change my mind about. I told him yesterday that I wanted to learn Italian. I absolutely meant it when I said it. But today, upon reflection, I've reconsidered and moved this goal low down on my to do list.

    And, yet when I ask my ISTP why he would be in a serious relationship with me if I'm so flighty, he surprises me by saying this:

    "At first I thought you were flighty. You don't always do what you say which drove me crazy in the beginning. Now I've learned to see your dependability. You are dependable, but in a completely different way than me. You're very loyal, loving, and honest. If you say something, I know you mean it IN THE MOMENT you say it. I've just learn to accept that in the next moment, you might say something completely different. It's like you're always re-evaluating your priorities and feelings... And you aren't afraid to change them if needed. Whereas I can get stuck in a rut and never change mine... even in the light of new information." - Esoteric Wench's Fiance

    I think what he's trying to say here is that I'm always and earnestly trying to understand my environment (dominant Ne). I'm not afraid to change my priorities and behavior based on the latest information (Ji aka Pness). In these two ways I'm very, very dependable.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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