[INFJ] INFJs - but you're supposed to be empathic!

[metalmommy]

Greetings to my fellow INFJs. Yes, I am a n00b... try not to hold that against me

Does anyone else ever get the statement from people...say, people with zero capacity for empathy...that you, as an INFJ, are supposed to have empathy so therefore, you're supposed to understand and provide the "oh, i'm so sorry!" response?

I get this frequently and it drives me insane. Yes, I understand the feelings. I understand why those feelings are there; however, that does not preclude my feeling as if said person is also an ass. Just because I get the "why" behind the feeling doesn't mean i'm inclined to provide the "poor baby, let me kiss your booboo" response.

ok, so I might not a huge feeler. *cough*

Anyone else have this issue? Or get where i'm coming from? I mean you guys are supposed to be empathetic, right??

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=16371]metalmommy[/MENTION]

Haven't had it myself, but I can totally imagine it happening.

I look at it this way. Empathy is not the same as sympathy. Empathy is being able to share someone else's feelings.

Comforting or saying "I'm so sorry! It'll be ok!" falls into the sympathy department. It often goes with empathy, but is independent because even people who don't empathize are capable of doing this.


So basically, being able to understand people's feelings doesn't mean you have to be a doormat.

 

[metalmommy]

Exactly! And better expressed than I managed.

In my particular situation, I get that line every time i'm getting the lengthy explanation on how I am at fault for said person feeling this way. And aren't I supposed to be empathetic?

Perhaps a vocabulary lesson is in order!

 

[EasyThereGenius]

Yes, I understand the feelings. I understand why those feelings are there; however, that does not preclude my feeling as if said person is also an ass. Just because I get the "why" behind the feeling doesn't mean i'm inclined to provide the "poor baby, let me kiss your booboo" response.

ok, so I might not a huge feeler. *cough*

Anyone else have this issue? Or get where i'm coming from?

Oh, yes. I know this one...I can generally recognise and understand feelings quite well. It's the overblown outpourings of emotion I have a problem with. And this is what people often seem to expect.

 

[Evo]

Greetings to my fellow INFJs. Yes, I am a n00b... try not to hold that against me

Does anyone else ever get the statement from people...say, people with zero capacity for empathy...that you, as an INFJ, are supposed to have empathy so therefore, you're supposed to understand and provide the "oh, i'm so sorry!" response?

I get this frequently and it drives me insane. Yes, I understand the feelings. I understand why those feelings are there; however, that does not preclude my feeling as if said person is also an ass. Just because I get the "why" behind the feeling doesn't mean i'm inclined to provide the "poor baby, let me kiss your booboo" response.

ok, so I might not a huge feeler. *cough*


Anyone else have this issue? Or get where i'm coming from? I mean you guys are supposed to be empathetic, right??

I do not expect that from an INFJ...that's why they're awesome...someone who is doing that...does not know you well enough...or does and just wants you to do what they want...I do not go to an infj if i'm looking for sympathy...i go to an isfj....you should tell them to do the same...

 

[metalmommy]

Oh, yes. I know this one...I can generally recognise and understand feelings quite well. It's the overblown outpourings of emotion I have a problem with. And this is what people often seem to expect.

Yes! Exactly. I don't want the overblown outpouring of emotion. That is so exhausting.

 

[metalmommy]

someone who is doing that...does not know you well enough...or does and just wants you to do what they want...

Yes! This is so dead on. And in my case, so annoying. I finally figured out that I'm being manipulated...and that this person does not know me at all even after 7 years. Which is unfortunate. And you're also right that an ISFJ would be so much more appropriate.

 

[Lexicon]

Yes! Exactly. I don't want the overblown outpouring of emotion. That is so exhausting.

It's not only exhausting, it's gross.

And fuck ''supposed to.'' Seriously. If someone's looking for an overt, cloyingly sympathetic response, to satisfy all their little ''supposed to'' bs expectations - they should go find an xSFJ* for that. People expecting you to react a certain way based on the understanding that you're a generally empathetic person illustrates some severely one-dimensional thinking, and it feels like a bag of bricks to have that shit imposed on you, out of nowhere.

*nothing against xSFJ behavior, I'm describing how it feels to me, personally, not how it is for everyone. Many people only feel comforted when they can have that mushy fluffy reaction..

I am not one of those people.

 

[metalmommy]

It's not only exhausting, it's gross.

And fuck ''supposed to.'' Seriously. If someone's looking for an overt, cloyingly sympathetic response, to satisfy all their little ''supposed to'' bs expectations - they should go find an xSFJ* for that. People expecting you to react a certain way based on the understanding that you're a generally empathetic person illustrates some severely one-dimensional thinking, and it feels like a bag of bricks to have that shit imposed on you, out of nowhere.

Agreed. Totally. over the weekend, I actually got the "you're supposed to be the empathetic one" line again, followed by "you sure suck at showing it to me." Which does not make me empathetic...bitch slap is more what comes to mind. Apparently this grown ass man has determined that it's my responsibility to manage his emotions since he can't. This N should not be married to an S.*

*no disrespect intended to the Ss out there...this one just isn't good for me.

 

[Lexicon]

Agreed. Totally. over the weekend, I actually got the "you're supposed to be the empathetic one" line again, followed by "you sure suck at showing it to me." Which does not make me empathetic...bitch slap is more what comes to mind. Apparently this grown ass man has determined that it's my responsibility to manage his emotions since he can't. This N should not be married to an S.*

*no disrespect intended to the Ss out there...this one just isn't good for me.

I wonder if he understands how inadequate that can make someone feel, like, especially being MARRIED, that being/expressing yourself & your love naturally isn't enough for him, he needs you to become someone else when he's at his worst.. that'd hurt me on a core level, I think. I've seen this behavior in xNTJ's who may not be terribly emotionally mature, as well. So it's not always an s/n divide. It may be more of an Fi thing; I dunno what type your spouse is, though. I'm guessing maybe xSTJ? Either way... I wish you luck, miss.

 

[metalmommy]

I wonder if he understands how inadequate that can make someone feel, like, especially being MARRIED, that being/expressing yourself & your love naturally isn't enough for him, he needs you to become someone else when he's at his worst.. that'd hurt me on a core level, I think. I've seen this behavior in xNTJ's who may not be terribly emotionally mature, as well. So it's not always an s/n divide. It may be more of an Fi thing, I dunno what type you spouse is, though. I'm guessing maybe xSTJ? Either way... I wish you luck, miss.

Yeah, he's got some maturity issues...anger issues...good times I tell you. And he has made me feel very inadequate. Like there's something wrong with me. The relationship is done, really. I've had some realizations, and it's kinda like the Matrix, I can't go back now that I've seen what's real. It is unfortunate.

I believe he is an ISTP. which I don't think anyone lists as a good match for an INFJ... LOL

Thanks for the luck. It's needed.

 

[Lexicon]

Yeah, he's got some maturity issues...anger issues...good times I tell you. And he has made me feel very inadequate. Like there's something wrong with me. The relationship is done, really. I've had some realizations, and it's kinda like the Matrix, I can't go back now that I've seen what's real. It is unfortunate.

I believe he is an ISTP. which I don't think anyone lists as a good match for an INFJ... LOL

Thanks for the luck. It's needed.

I think there was some statistic floating around the forum saying that INFJs are the most dissatisfied with their relationships, overall.
Sigh.

Cats are so much simpler.

 

[metalmommy]

I think there was some statistic floating around the forum saying that INFJs are the most dissatisfied with their relationships, overall.
Sigh.

Cats are so much simpler.

I saw that statistic somewhere in the last couple of days. Suckish, imho.

You're right about the cats...except there are a couple of key functions they can't perform, sadly...

 

[A_priori]

As an observation, being an INFJ myself. I find that being able to tap into my empathy is what really helps me feel in the balance. I think the most powerful tool we have as INFJs is our empathy combined with are observational skills. In my feild of work, I am constantly working closely with a lot of very broken people. You see empathy is really about showing respect and respect "in my opinion" is really about giving others your time. It takes a lot of work to try and put ourselves in Sombody else's shoes. As INFJs I personaly feel that it plays a very important role in our integrity. Don't get me wrong I can totally identify with what some of you are saying. There's plenty of people out there that are abusive towards us, expecting us to constantly be there for support. INFJs are only human and we can only handle so much stimulation. I guess what I am really trying to say here is that I think everyone can become easily depleted of empathy but seriously guys, I think that this is where we really shine. The people that I look up to most are good listeners, a lot of INFPs actually. It's strange because I find that I have to tap into my FI to find my patients somtimes "which is actually one of our ego functions if you follow Socionics".. Anyways, empathy is something you have to be in the right head space for and it has to come naturally.

 

[SilkRoad]

As an observation, being an INFJ myself. I find that being able to tap into my empathy is what really helps me feel in the balance. I think the most powerful tool we have as INFJs is our empathy combined with are observational skills. In my feild of work, I am constantly working closely with a lot of very broken people. You see empathy is really about showing respect and respect "in my opinion" is really about giving others your time. It takes a lot of work to try and put ourselves in Sombody else's shoes. As INFJs I personaly feel that it plays a very important role in our integrity. Don't get me wrong I can totally identify with what some of you are saying. There's plenty of people out there that are abusive towards us, expecting us to constantly be there for support. INFJs are only human and we can only handle so much stimulation. I guess what I am really trying to say here is that I think everyone can become easily depleted of empathy but seriously guys, I think that this is where we really shine. The people that I look up to most are good listeners, a lot of INFPs actually. It's strange because I find that I have to tap into my FI to find my patients somtimes "which is actually one of our ego functions if you follow Socionics".. Anyways, empathy is something you have to be in the right head space for and it has to come naturally.

I relate to this quite a bit. I generally get told that I'm quite empathetic - although I don't have the energy to show it to everyone or I end up feeling like I'm spreading myself too thin. But with people I'm close to or who I have a chance to temporarily get close to, I believe I am quite empathetic.

I do get mad though if people push me to say things on cue or suggest that I should be there for them 24/7 and provide them with non-stop sympathy and enabling. I haven't had this problem much but I definitely had it in the last couple of years with a very unhealthy individual who I've now removed from my life. I think she's mentally ill and certainly has attitude problems. I gave her the time of day and listened to her emotional outpourings about how much her life sucked, so she came to expect that I'd CONSTANTLY do this, and allow her to suck my energy and provide her with the love she couldn't provide herself due to her self-hatred and lack of self-esteem. (She would actually say things like "I want you to say such-and-such to me, to make me feel better." ) Eventually this borderline co-dependent "friendship" ran its course. I'm not going to put up with that kind of nonsense or with emotional blackmail based on "but you're a kind empathetic person..." [and hence should put up with all my crap and make it your life career to make me feel better]

 

[A_priori]

I relate to this quite a bit. I generally get told that I'm quite empathetic - although I don't have the energy to show it to everyone or I end up feeling like I'm spreading myself too thin. But with people I'm close to or who I have a chance to temporarily get close to, I believe I am quite empathetic.

I do get mad though if people push me to say things on cue or suggest that I should be there for them 24/7 and provide them with non-stop sympathy and enabling. I haven't had this problem much but I definitely had it in the last couple of years with a very unhealthy individual who I've now removed from my life. I think she's mentally ill and certainly has attitude problems. I gave her the time of day and listened to her emotional outpourings about how much her life sucked, so she came to expect that I'd CONSTANTLY do this, and allow her to suck my energy and provide her with the love she couldn't provide herself due to her self-hatred and lack of self-esteem. (She would actually say things like "I want you to say such-and-such to me, to make me feel better." ) Eventually this borderline co-dependent "friendship" ran its course. I'm not going to put up with that kind of nonsense or with emotional blackmail based on "but you're a kind empathetic person..." [and hence should put up with all my crap and make it your life career to make me feel better]

Ya, some people are just toxic and I get the sense that your friend may have personality issues. We definitely have to watch out for people like that. This is the kind of thing that can make an INFJ resentful and I find that once somone has crossed that line of abusing my friendship, it can be really hard to let that person back in.

 

[xenaprincess]

I feel ya. I'm over the 'supposed to' routine as well.

I'm not sure whether it's more evident when working with T people? Everyone has potential to have very inflexible thinking. But to foist upon you a 'supposed to', 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' when it comes to how you feel is ridiculous. Maybe it's harder to hear the 'should' part as an F person?

I'm going thru this myself right now with an INTJ. I want to tell him, f- the 'should' part. What about 'what is', right now? and I thought I was an idealist.

 

[metalmommy]

Oh, I totally agree about empathy being one of our greatest gifts...and I am a very empathetic person. so much so that it plays a big role in my career.

The issue that I have with my husband is that the empathy only goes one way and he expects something more like sympathy from me when he throws an emotional fit. He wants me to deal with hits emotions for him and provide the "feel better" platitudes. Usually at my expense...meaning that his emotional dumps are usually my fault somehow.

he is just so draining and I don't get anything in return to refill my tank.

 

[Evo]

Oh, I totally agree about empathy being one of our greatest gifts...and I am a very empathetic person. so much so that it plays a big role in my career.

The issue that I have with my husband is that the empathy only goes one way and he expects something more like sympathy from me when he throws an emotional fit. He wants me to deal with hits emotions for him and provide the "feel better" platitudes. Usually at my expense...meaning that his emotional dumps are usually my fault somehow.

he is just so draining and I don't get anything in return to refill my tank.

That sounds stressful...i know about energy and not getting any refill...but for me my emotions are not always attached to that energy...so for an INFJ that must Serously be exhausting. :/


I have been with an ISTP...bad business if they're not healthy...their emotions are all over...so draining...i remember sacrificing so much...most difficult and quick relationship i've ever had. They always want to make everything THEY'RE feeling your fault!!! meh never again

I relate to this quite a bit. I generally get told that I'm quite empathetic - although I don't have the energy to show it to everyone or I end up feeling like I'm spreading myself too thin. But with people I'm close to or who I have a chance to temporarily get close to, I believe I am quite empathetic.
I do get mad though if people push me to say things on cue or suggest that I should be there for them 24/7 and provide them with non-stop sympathy and enabling. ]

infj's are so good at being empathetic and sympathetic. They literally have a magical gift..and i don't give those compliments easily...but any infj i've ever gotten close too is worth it...THE PEOPLE YOU GUYS/GIRLS ARE WITH "SHOULD" KNOW THAT!!!! gahh! INFJ's have a way of making your problems Literally disapear...it's quite amazing...and i don't think you "should be" wasting it on the the people that don't matter as much.


In response to the fact that infj's are most dissatisfied with thier relationships: my theory is that they have too high of expectations for the rest of this world (I know I do)

 

[Asterism]

I identify a lot with what's posted here. It feels as if, because of my empathy, I've been slotted into the role of being everyone's counselor, without my consent. Only, they don't want counseling but more like endless buttpats. That's not on.

I feel ya. I'm over the 'supposed to' routine as well.

I'm not sure whether it's more evident when working with T people? Everyone has potential to have very inflexible thinking. But to foist upon you a 'supposed to', 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' when it comes to how you feel is ridiculous. Maybe it's harder to hear the 'should' part as an F person?

I'm going thru this myself right now with an INTJ. I want to tell him, f- the 'should' part. What about 'what is', right now? and I thought I was an idealist.

That doesn't sound like any INTJ I've ever known, even casually. I find they bristle even more than I do at "supposed tos."