Heart
hi
pointed me to this thread.
Don't both INFP and INFJ find the answer to their question internally?
Yes. We're both Introverted types.
And how can INFJ not have a roadmap?
We just don't. We'd find that stifling if we did.
isn't every answer to a question a sort of precedence to be followed?
Yes and no. Every answer gives clues to the working of the Universe, but each new question must be examined within its own context.
sure it changes - its not a static roadmap. don't you keep every flash of insight you have to guide you?
Wow! No! My head would explode if I did that.
or do you have them, do an action, and forget the hunch?
Not quite. It's more we have a hunch, modify our internal web of ideas, theories and understandings according to it, and then forget it.
imagine yourself exploring a new ocean- as you move through it, you map where you've been so you know how to navigate it again at a later time...
Not quite. Having to navigate by following a map would eventually kill the heart of any INFJ. Instead, INFJs learn how to read the currents and the winds and all that stuff so that wherever and whenever we navigate, whether it's a whole new place or somewhere we've already been, whether it's by night or by day, we'll always know what's coming. Sure we need to have a very crude map of the ocean, but filling in the details would bore us to death. Instead, we thrive on uncovering the patterns and on using them to examine each new situation on its own.
but perhaps on revisiting, you find a small island that you miss due to the foggy weather the first time. you don't look at the island and say it doesn't exist. that's stupid.
Chances are, we already suspected (consciously or unconsciously) that the island was there even if we couldn't see it, because we noticed the patterns in the ocean around it that indicated its presence. We don't always realise what we already know, so we might be a bit surprised when we find the island, but then we go DUH! and realise that we should have known all along, because the patterns were there.
If we are really surprised to find the island, then we take it as an indication that our understanding of the ocean's patterns is incomplete/inaccurate, which leads us to studying the island and everything attached to it until we find out what was wrong with our previous understanding. We then modify our knowledge of the ocean's patterns - and pretty much forget about the island itself.
and what's this about static beliefs...
Classic Ni/Fi tug of war. Ni says that Fi is too static, Fi says that Ni sells itself out (or something). No big deal.
And who crusades anything?
I'm with Heart on that one: INFJs have nothing to complain about when it comes to crusading
Both INFx types are crusaders at heart, but not in the same way nor for the same reasons, so each type tends to see the other as being too pushy.
I don't push my beliefs on others.
You wouldn't, you're an Introvert. However, if someone insists on scrutinising your beliefs and on pointing out what they see as inconsistencies or any other kind of "flaws" in them, then you are likely (I'm not saying you will, just that you are likely) to explode in some sort of moral rage and tell the other person that they are wrong to think that way, that your way is the only right way, and that anyone with a shred of morality would see that you're right. That's puzzling to INFJs, who take it for granted that everyone thinks their own way is the most right way, and who are far more interested in understanding WHAT your way is and WHY you think it's the best way not only for you but for everyone else.
are INFP supposedly crusaders?
All NFs supposedly are, though all in a different way.
What's wrong with wanting to realize a vision for a better world?
You're pushing my INFJ buttons with that one
Please bear with me as I put you through my INFJ grinder, OK ? Here goes: better world according to who? You? What makes you think that your vision of a better world is necessarily anybody else's vision? In fact, chances are that there would be quite a few people who would be *less* happy in your "better world" than they are now, so why would you even want to change their world? And so forth and so on. Typical INFJ/INFP interaction. Nothing wrong with either type, just that our priorities are completely at odds.
are INFJ suppose to have visions that are somehow better than INFP?
Again, it all depends on what you call "better", which in turn depends on what you VALUE. Since INFPs and INFJs value starkly different things, they necessarily have a very different idea of what "better" means.
where did you get this "can never change the original experiences, perceptions, values, etc. that you hold"? are you saying that people are static and don't change? Seems a bit.. narrow minded.
The emphasis is on "original". IOW: you cannot change your past. You cannot change what happened to you, you cannot change the way you used to think, you cannot change the values that you were taught when you were a kid. You can change how you REACT to all those NOW, but you cannot directly change them. Someone who was raised as a girl can never intimately know what it's like to be raised as a boy. Someone who was raised Catholic can never fully understand what it's like to be raised Protestant. Someone who grew up white can never fully appreciate what it's like to grow up black. And so on. We can try to compensate for those things by learning, studying, discussing, empathising, whatever. But we can never change the fact that we had *those* experiences, and not *these*.
blah - don't generalize a situation where someone who happens to be INFP saying their path is the only true path to be truth for all INFP.
It's not just one INFP...
sorry, but you guys are confusing me - it seems like splitting hairs, mixed in with predisposition towards one type or the other.
That's a good summary of what INFP/INFJ discussions usually look like, yes. Confusion, splitting hairs, predisposition: sounds about right. Though, of course, INFJs typically don't see anything wrong with splitting hairs: if a hair needs to be split in order for two people to reach a mutual understanding, then *of course* we're going to split it, duh
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After all, there IS a reason why so many INFx are unsure, or downright wrong, about their last letter: we look very much the same on the surface (Introverted, iNtuitive, Feeling, Idealist, you name it). But we sure are vastly different once you go in depth...
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When have INFPs and INFJs *ever* agreed on the moral compass issue??
