I wanted to jot these thoughts down. They represent some rough ideas I have pondered over for awhile and I think they are mostly legit, but as always would be delighted to have other share their own perspectives and corrections, as my perceptions are simply what I have seen. They are coming from my ENFP perspective and are things I have seen work on ESFPs, ISFPs, and ENFPs I know and may have some value extrapolated to other FPs and even TJs.
- First: Fi judgments can be the most hateful, spiteful things ever, if used to protect one’s ego. This is when a TJ or FP degenerates to name calling or saying direct hurtful comments about another-either to them or to others. It is when an FP begins to start sounding nasty and vindictive and come close to some of the barbs that TPs can throw at one another out of fun.
- To do this feels really disgusting inside and I think most of us know there is a “wrongness” to it when we do it. There is an internal hatred to it, a refusal to empathise with the other or allow them into one’s heartspace. At least form the NeFi side, we feel as though we carry the souls of others within us, thus to say things that are attacking of others, is to inadvertently attack our own selves.
- Thus, simply by design, we are faced with attacking of others as feeling/being evil.
- Thus when we see TPs saying sarcastic or pointed things, FPs innately read you all as EVIL, simply due to projection of our worldview. I work with a pretty cool, incredibly sarcastic INTP, whom another ENFP repeatedly says should “have a better attitude and not be so mean”. (In the same way, I suspect there could be the tendency of TPs to view FPs as “STUPID” when they fail to see an internal Ti logical consistency, but that’d be another thread altogether.)
- FPs owe TPs an apology on a global level for this projection.
Second, So, let’s say you actually want to try and communicate with an FP (or maybe TJ) and what you are doing doesn’t seem to be working:
1. Recognize that throwing sharp Ti barbs or sarcasm at us like “you are stupid, your ideas are stupid” just looks like you are exhibiting spiteful Fi. This means we ignore you as being selfish and nasty and just not a nice person or a person with really, really screwed up Fi (think unibomber or satan). As I understand it, there is the notion that these shapr Ti barbs will provoke someone to think in a more reasonable way about an issue or recognize thier lack of logic...doesnt work well with us. Communication fail.
2. Recognize that Fe overtones and suggestive guidance will also fail as you are trying to influence our internal value framework. You just get read as being a really manipulative FP or an FP who is value pusing and being rude. Communication Fail.
3. Recognize that pointing to what Fe “everyone else” feels will be read to be as though you are not well founded enough in your own Fi value system to be able to think for yourself about what the right thing to do is, so we feel kind of sorry for you and just ignore whatever you are saying and roll our eyes. Communication fail.
4. If you become extremely emotionally adamant, well we feel sorry for you, as you seem very upset, but we read you as simply being overwhelmed by your own Fi emotions, thus incapable of having a reasonable conversation-we will be kind to you, try and be as logical or detached as possible or just give you time to calm down and become more reasonable. Communication fail.
5. When a TP of FJ tries to predict the internal motives of a TJ or FP, it is like watching a 6 car pileup on the freeway. Since we don’t use Ti, the Ti steps you guys come up with are typically very off and often quite offensive to our own Fi. Interestingly , you guys can get the external system correct and predict where things will end up okay, but you totally blow what motivates us and why we do things.
Things that do work when what you are doing may not be effective:
1. Affirm the emotional statement the person made. Recognize that they are entitled to feel what they as an individual feels, even if it seems bizarre or out of bounds. “you know you seem really upset and I would be as well in a situation like this”. DO NOT try and tell them what they should be feeling or what is normal to feel -instead say “this is how I feel…” or “Once I was in that situation and I felt this..”
2. A subtle value shift can be done via affirmation combined with what action you would take in their place. “I realize you were really frustrated (affirm), and in that situation I would have been hurt too (affirm), but I would have asked him aside to talk in more depth rather than catching his car on fire in the parking lot”
3. Be direct. Be direct. Be direct. Don’t be sarcastic or attempt to provoke. NEVER provoke or the convo will end. We will shut you down. Just simply say exactly where you see and issues then suggest a plan of action to resolve the issue. It is always okay to tell them what action you need them to take. This will prompt a negotiation of wants/values,
4. Never rely upon indirectness or shunning. We don’t notice or we miss the subtlety. If you think you are being direct, be an order of magnitude more direct. Also passive aggressive pouty Fi shuns people-after awhile this is just stupid and we will treat a person shunning us as being emotionally immature and childlike.
5. Don’t use shame, use guilt. “I did this action for you, know you need to do this for me.” “ You need to work harder for your children” We feel shame, but it is a rudimentary crippling Fi impact and if you shove enough it on an unstable FP, they may become suicidal as you destabilize their internal Fi.
6. We can feel very strongly for someone, but still not take the right action by them. In this situation, don’t say “You need to love your kids more”. Shutdown will occur. Instead say “I know you love your children a great deal. (affirm) You need to get a job/clean the house/do your homework as otherwise you are failing them (action)” First affirm that their values are correct, that they feel the right thing, then TELL them Directly what they should do to exemplify those values.
7. #1 FP tool for significant value shift: YOU ARE HURTING OTHER PEOPLE BY YOUR ACTIONS. This is how you influence our values in a very direct way. Even better pose it as a question: “Do you understand that the by doing this action you make other people uncomfortable/hurt? I know that you care, but your actions seem to indicate otherwise.”
8. Take the convo to external logistics whenever possible as that is where we will eventually try and problem solve. Set up signed contracts and feel free to cut off financial support-I love you but you need to learn to be more responsible.
9. Emphasize Te stuff-our external world is Te structure, not Fe structure, thus if you can focus on what we owe others in a tangible way, you’ll make more progress.
again, just wanted to toss the thoughts into the wind. Long ago Ms @fidelia had asked me to jot them down and I just kept forgetting