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  1. #61
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    This is the frustration I have, and I believe many other Fe users have, that the Fi user is too self-centered to care about the group.
    Pansy. And you know it.

    When Fi users start shooting their mouths off at least some of it is Te. What's the best mechanical solution for us all in this situation as a group of individual Fi shouters? They don't care less about the group, they determine what works for it in a contrary way.

    The problem for communication and mutual backrubs is, to use the language of typology, Te and Fe deny one another. A Te approach denies that the mechanical aspects of the situation are laced directly with feeling signifiers. A Te approach denies that "the group" exists in the terms you say it does.

    This is exactly why we can't have nice things.



    (Probably shouldn't have said "pansy". Singling out speakers and appearing to assign evaluations to them based on their claims is just one of the many gambits in the construction of "the group" and/or knowledge that probably just always does go wrong. WHO THE HELL KNOWS?!)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #62
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    What is described about TPs doing reminds me a lot of my ISTP older brother.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Pansy. And you know it.

    When Fi users start shooting their mouths off at least some of it is Te. What's the best mechanical solution for us all in this situation as a group of individual Fi shouters? They don't care less about the group, they determine what works for it in a contrary way.

    The problem for communication and mutual backrubs is, to use the language of typology, Te and Fe deny one another. A Te approach denies that the mechanical aspects of the situation are laced directly with feeling signifiers. A Te approach denies that "the group" exists in the terms you say it does.

    This is exactly why we can't have nice things.



    (Probably shouldn't have said "pansy". Singling out speakers and appearing to assign evaluations to them based on their claims is just one of the many gambits in the construction of "the group" and/or knowledge that probably just always does go wrong. WHO THE HELL KNOWS?!)
    Eh, I don't see the Te.

  4. #64
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Eh, I don't see the Te.
    Not a disproof.

    In fact, quite the opposite, eh?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #65
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Pretty long OP. I just want to say that when I first came here I ran into a wall of Fi-doms who kept telling me I was doing this or that wrong. But as far as I'm concerned, that's their opinion. Their feelings and personal value aren't The Truth, and I am not one to be dictated to by a bunch of nattering ninnies.


    Are you serious?

    Sorry, but I was with you until the last part where you indulge in the very behaviour the OP outlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Take the autoplay discussion in Feedback. I had no idea who does or does not use it. But I knew who would throw the hissy fit about changing it.

    Who always arrives, charging up the hill, screaming with bayonet fixed? The Fi users. They never seem to care about the groups and associations they affect. Can hardly ever get them to admit others have a problem to begin with.
    Hmmm, that's what it seemed like to you? I don't know that we read it the same way. I said I disliked autoplay, but never meant my comment to be taken seriously, nor do I think it important to change the set up. I wonder now if that's how it came off. I certainly don't think it should be changed if the majority of people like it or don't mind it.

    I think there are several wires getting crossed here. Sometimes Fe-users hear dissent as an attempt to bring everything down, when Fi-users just want to explore the full picture. Sometimes what Fi-user deems as merely expressing an opinion, Fe-users see as a call to action. Perhaps we Fi-users don't always foresee the impact of communicating an personal view and that it might undermine things for everyone. From our perspective more voices and more information are preferable, as it helps to clarify and determine what action to take. Perhaps one individual may express a strong dislike for the autoplay, without necessarily believing the best thing would be to change it - that person may simply not like it and wants people to know that, and isn't demanding everyone to drop everything and run around to please him/her. The strength of the opinion does not necessarily reflect the level of expectation that it should be valued above others.

    But then again some of them might be just grumpy whiners who want things their way. I'd have to read through the thread again.

    This is the frustration I have, and I believe many other Fe users have, that the Fi user is too self-centered to care about the group.


    I think we both value the group. Human beings do tend to gravitate towards some form of utilitarianism. I just think we have different ideas about what is better for the group.

    From explore what was said above, it seems you believe cohesion is important, as well as adhering to what is best for the majority. But to me it's just as important to question what individuals want, in order to work out who in fact the majority is; as well as to evaluate whether the pleasure of some, should outweigh the negative effects on others. If that makes sense.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #66
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    Yeah ...

  7. #67
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post


    Are you serious?

    Sorry, but I was with you until the last part where you indulge in the very behaviour the OP outlines.
    Thanks for providing a great example of what I was saying.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #68
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Thanks for providing a great example of what I was saying.
    Oh, you mean I was being all judgemental by pointing out that it's wrong use insults to get your point across?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #69
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Err...Wow. Ok. I was just going to add that it is unfortunate this is a text template, as with this topic, the intonation of what you are saying is *vital* to not sounding condescending or judgemental. Even with the I and You difference as such. If you say whichever text as a call to action..it is going to put more pressure and potentially cause more rebellion in the receiver, whereas if it is given as just a piece of advise (if asked for, or even unsolicited), without any indication of frustration, judgement, just merely as an observation, it has less of a 'invaded' space feeling to it

    ...as for the INTPs who indicated that they dont care about causing discomfort and even harm to others since they (according to them) stayed in the 'appropriate' boundaries of the social contract...That to me is about as selfish as Fi-users who deliberately destroy the harmony or the common goal that the group they are in is holding dear, just for individual expression.

    On a personal note, if that behavior gets displayed in front of me, Im likely to keep you at arms length from there on as I cannot trust you to not stab me in the back (yes, I experience that kind of severe lack of empathy as stabbing in the back, as such, even if you dont necessarily intend it that way). I may understand where you are coming from, but you will get your wish: I will Fe/Te up. And you wont get passed polite chit chat, since I wont feel safe around you. Of course, that may actually be what you are looking for, so that works, I guess

    Anycase..this thread seems to have taken a turn towards toxicville, so I think I will get off at this station. Enjoy your rides
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Err...Wow. Ok. I was just going to add that it is unfortunate this is a text template, as with this topic, the intonation of what you are saying is *vital* to not sounding condescending or judgemental. Even with the I and You difference as such. If you say whichever text as a call to action..it is going to put more pressure and potentially cause more rebellion in the receiver, whereas if it is given as just a piece of advise (if asked for, or even unsolicited), without any indication of frustration, judgement, just merely as an observation, it has less of a 'invaded' space feeling to it

    ...as for the INTPs who indicated that they dont care about causing discomfort and even harm to others since they (according to them) stayed in the 'appropriate' boundaries of the social contract...That to me is about as selfish as Fi-users who deliberately destroy the harmony or the common goal that the group they are in is holding dear, just for individual expression.

    On a personal note, if that behavior gets displayed in front of me, Im likely to keep you at arms length from there on as I cannot trust you to not stab me in the back (yes, I experience that kind of severe lack of empathy as stabbing in the back, as such, even if you dont necessarily intend it that way). I may understand where you are coming from, but you will get your wish: I will Fe/Te up. And you wont get passed polite chit chat, since I wont feel safe around you. Of course, that may actually be what you are looking for, so that works, I guess

    Anycase..this thread seems to have taken a turn towards toxicville, so I think I will get off at this station. Enjoy your rides
    With this thread things are often very shortsighted as well. If someone is generally very rude and then they say something with a nice tone or nice words it seems fake. At that point no matter how you word it or say it or what inflections you use its meaningless.
    Im out, its been fun

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