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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Pretty long OP. I just want to say that when I first came here I ran into a wall of Fi-doms who kept telling me I was doing this or that wrong. But as far as I'm concerned, that's their opinion. Their feelings and personal value aren't The Truth, and I am not one to be dictated to by a bunch of nattering ninnies.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #52
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    The "general approach" then, to talk in vague uncertainties that something needs to get magically done by someone, that someone likely being in the room, who we won't name, but who should be socially savvy enough to know we're talking about them, is just as sadly condescending to my ears too.



    Therein the rub.

    I would say Amar's statement is too declarative for my taste. Just as you wouldn't start your sentence with "you" I would be unlikely to start mine with "I". As an example, I would likely say, "The whole house is a mess right now (Te declaration) and since we all made this mess, I don't think it's fair that person X is the only person taking care of the problem. (Fi value) Could you please do task XYZ?"
    This is exactly how I prefer to phrase things (and have done so, many times, almost with those exact words in cleaning situations). Not convinced it really reflects Fi or Te at all, since those are my weakest functions. Both the Fi and Fe phrasings of Amargith sound utterly bizarre and condescending to me, both to give or to receive - maybe they're just for Feeling-oriented types.

    My husband (Te dom) would just simply say, "The house is a mess and you made it (Te declaration). Get cleaning it up. Now." (less obviously stated Fi value that folks should own their own messes...)
    This sounds so very disrespectful to me that I'd probably have a hissy fit followed by a conversation about ordering people around like slaves. ymmv, I guess.

    Have I ever seen a strong Fe-user say "Wow, Fi-er, you are different but I can live with that, and be comfortable with that!" whenever any of this gets discussed, really? It's a rule most INFP's I've seen here appear to live by, so we hope to get the same offered in return.
    In my experience Fe-users don't say that because it's just accepted that differences are totally okay - until those differences start to hurt other people. So the validation of your personal feelings isn't seen to be as important as the impacts on everyone else.

    to any Fe-er annoyed by my post. Undoubtedly it will be a few of you. If you are offended though, look inside yourself, you own that, not me.
    lol, I'm guessing you will think that I'm annoyed, but I'm not.
    -end of thread-

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    The "general approach" then, to talk in vague uncertainties that something needs to get magically done by someone, that someone likely being in the room, who we won't name, but who should be socially savvy enough to know we're talking about them, is just as sadly condescending to my ears too.
    I don't understand because:

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I would say Amar's statement is too declarative for my taste. Just as you wouldn't start your sentence with "you" I would be unlikely to start mine with "I". As an example, I would likely say, "The whole house is a mess right now (Te declaration) and since we all made this mess, I don't think it's fair that person X is the only person taking care of the problem. (Fi value) Could you please do task XYZ?"
    that's pretty much my Fe approach. The only difference might be is I will leave off the final sentence because I'm not proposing a specific solution just yet. The declaration there is a problem is my initial goal. I'm not really caring about who is to blame, sometimes I'm part of the problem myself. Hell, most of the time I don't care about blame at all. I want to fix a problem.

    Take the autoplay discussion in Feedback. I had no idea who does or does not use it. But I knew who would throw the hissy fit about changing it.

    Who always arrives, charging up the hill, screaming with bayonet fixed? The Fi users. They never seem to care about the groups and associations they affect. Can hardly ever get them to admit others have a problem to begin with.

    This is the frustration I have, and I believe many other Fe users have, that the Fi user is too self-centered to care about the group.

  4. #54
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Is it Fe/Fi or just people being immature?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Is it Fe/Fi or just people being immature?
    I don't know. Since I believe looking beyond oneself is a sign of maturity, I may naturally assign the "mature" label to Fe, which isn't always correct.

  6. #56
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Who always arrives, charging up the hill, screaming with bayonet fixed? The Fi users. They never seem to care about the groups and associations they affect. Can hardly ever get them to admit others have a problem to begin with.

    This is the frustration I have, and I believe many other Fe users have, that the Fi user is too self-centered to care about the group.
    To be fair, it's usually only a few Fi users who do this. But they tend to make enough noise that they're easily mistaken for a horde of angry Fi.
    -end of thread-

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    To be fair, it's usually only a few Fi users who do this. But they tend to make enough noise that they're easily mistaken for a horde of angry Fi.
    True.

    Though they sometimes seem to rotate the front lines duty!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I don't know. Since I believe looking beyond oneself is a sign of maturity, I may naturally assign the "mature" label to Fe, which isn't always correct.
    Yeah I guess both Fi and Fe (if I even understand the difference at all) can be immature in their ways...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  9. #59
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    •First: Fi judgments can be the most hateful, spiteful things ever, if used to protect one’s ego. This is when a TJ or FP degenerates to name calling or saying direct hurtful comments about another-either to them or to others. It is when an FP begins to start sounding nasty and vindictive and come close to some of the barbs that TPs can throw at one another out of fun.
    Those could just as easily be made through either of the Je functions. Furthermore, this type of judgement is probably skewed by the likes of anger, consciously acclaimed insecurities and other psychological phenomenon. Trapping it into the vacuum that is jung would probably lead to only lightly correlated results.

    Although it is clearly possible to describe relationships with jungian and similar forms of language, you'd probably be better off looking to the likes of socionics - which better fulfills the context of relationships, rather than individual personality.

    Yes, the ego does defend against certain things and promote others; but you can't just cut and paste jung's work and pretend that they fit this context, let alone anger and other reactions.

    I'd quote other parts of your post, but this message should cross apply just as well to the rest of it.

  10. #60
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Is it Fe/Fi or just people being immature?
    Probably immature. The differences in approaches concerning intent, actions, and goals can make things messy enough already. Immaturity can take it to the nth degree.

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