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  1. #111
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    ^ but that's extroverted judgment in action! When people do that checking in with others, it's not just empathy or whatnot, it's the creation of public judgment.
    I might even do this with Te. If I'm out for a new type of product, I'll wonder what the majority doesn't think is shit. Or if there is a de facto design. If the product has "hobbyist" or customizing potential, I take advantage of that later. In order to get my feet wet though, I need extroverted judgement just to acquaint myself with the basic idea. I don't always assess from an introverted view right away. It's hard to even get to know some things unless they're in my hands.

    How does this apply to Fe.. not sure. I'm informed of a lot "moral values" from religions and philosophy. Which is probably Fe on some wider scale. But end up aggravated with various inconsistencies or things they're associated with. I pick and choose. Kind of like Jefferson condensed his own bible. It'll also apply to casual social rules too.

  2. #112
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I might even do this with Te. If I'm out for a new type of product, I'll wonder what the majority doesn't think is shit. Or if there is a de facto design. If the product has "hobbyist" or customizing potential, I take advantage of that later. In order to get my feet wet though, I need extroverted judgement just to acquaint myself with the basic idea. I don't always assess from an introverted view right away. It's hard to even get to know some things unless they're in my hands.
    That actually sounds more like the gathering of real information for the purpose of spotting relevance or trends, which I'd associate more with Se/Ni.

    As we all know, the correlation between some particular behavior and the presence or absence of a preferred style for taking in information and making judgments is not at all one-to-one. So when I said the practice of voicing an opinion and comparing it with another person's is extroverted judgment in action, I meant if you have some kind of extroverted judgment preference in your cognitive makeup, then the products of that conversation are likely directly relevant grist for that function's mill, and the person may well pay attention more than another type might at that time.

    How does this apply to Fe.. not sure. I'm informed of a lot "moral values" from religions and philosophy. Which is probably Fe on some wider scale. But end up aggravated with various inconsistencies or things they're associated with. I pick and choose. Kind of like Jefferson condensed his own bible. It'll also apply to casual social rules too.
    Bingo.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  3. #113
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    That actually sounds more like the gathering of real information for the purpose of spotting relevance or trends, which I'd associate more with Se/Ni.

    As we all know, the correlation between some particular behavior and the presence or absence of a preferred style for taking in information and making judgments is not at all one-to-one. So when I said the practice of voicing an opinion and comparing it with another person's is extroverted judgment in action, I meant if you have some kind of extroverted judgment preference in your cognitive makeup, then the products of that conversation are likely directly relevant grist for that function's mill, and the person may well pay attention more than another type might at that time.
    Yeah.. I stand corrected actually. You're right about Se dealing with those kind of trends. I should've known better. I suppose it could be my way of conversing or trying to mimic Te. Both approaches in their own way are trying to address the same things. I think I get along with STJs well enough. They have a different pace, and I'm impatient, but that's another story.

  4. #114
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post

    I wanted to jot these thoughts down. They represent some rough ideas I have pondered over for awhile and I think they are mostly legit, but as always would be delighted to have other share their own perspectives and corrections, as my perceptions are simply what I have seen. They are coming from my ENFP perspective and are things I have seen work on ESFPs, ISFPs, and ENFPs I know and may have some value extrapolated to other FPs and even TJs.

    • First: Fi judgments can be the most hateful, spiteful things ever, if used to protect one’s ego. This is when a TJ or FP degenerates to name calling or saying direct hurtful comments about another-either to them or to others. It is when an FP begins to start sounding nasty and vindictive and come close to some of the barbs that TPs can throw at one another out of fun.
    • To do this feels really disgusting inside and I think most of us know there is a “wrongness” to it when we do it. There is an internal hatred to it, a refusal to empathise with the other or allow them into one’s heartspace. At least form the NeFi side, we feel as though we carry the souls of others within us, thus to say things that are attacking of others, is to inadvertently attack our own selves.
    • Thus, simply by design, we are faced with attacking of others as feeling/being evil.
    • Thus when we see TPs saying sarcastic or pointed things, FPs innately read you all as EVIL, simply due to projection of our worldview. I work with a pretty cool, incredibly sarcastic INTP, whom another ENFP repeatedly says should “have a better attitude and not be so mean”. (In the same way, I suspect there could be the tendency of TPs to view FPs as “STUPID” when they fail to see an internal Ti logical consistency, but that’d be another thread altogether.)
    • FPs owe TPs an apology on a global level for this projection.
    It's ok, you don't owe us an apology.
    And if you think Ti users aren't capable of being genuinely spiteful, you're being very naive. [This actually sounds like something an ENTP might say to an NF to make YOU feel guilty for his hurting your feelings...]

    The fact is we simple care less than you do about other people's feelings. This is not a moral issue: you can't help but feel, overflowing as you are with empathy. We can't help but not feel. Not to the same extent, anyway. We each act under a sort of compulsion; "evil" doesn't come into it. The fact that you think we're "evil" does make us find you ridiculous though, and is a genuine obstacle to communication.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    "evil" doesn't come into it.
    It does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    The fact that you think we're "evil" does make us find you ridiculous though
    Who is this Us? I don't believe I've met that person.

  6. #116
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Who is this Us? I don't believe I've met that person.
    You've never met anyone who finds you ridiculous?
    I find that hard to believe...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #117
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    The fact that you think we're "evil" does make us find you ridiculous though, and is a genuine obstacle to communication.
    hmm, I assumed that was an exaggeration. If anyone truly thought someone was "evil" for a bit of sarcasm or direct language, that would be pretty ridiculous, I agree.
    -end of thread-

  8. #118
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Plenty of people on here think I'm evil.
    Muhahahaha! Etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #119
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Plenty of people on here think I'm evil.
    Muhahahaha! Etc.
    That depends on what metal bands you listen to.

  10. #120
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Platinum has a nice ring to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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