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  1. #101
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    In terms of how someone develops truth it's all subjective. I suppose I read truth as inherent in consistency of action. It has nothing to do with good or evil, dishonesty or honesty. In fact, I believe morally corrupt people are often truthful people. At least, they have a consistency between their actions and belief system.
    Did any of Fi types you had in mind personally let you down with this inconsistency? I'm just wondering why it's on your mind.

    I don't know if it's a Fi thing, but I don't want to know about someone's great ideals, and then they turn out to be flaky. At the same time, some people overshoot with their own ideals that it'd almost require them to be "perfect" if they actually lived up to them. Which is impossible. I'm not going to expect that. I'll just be disappointed if it affects me.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't know if it's a Fi thing, but I don't want to know about someone's great ideals, and then they turn out to be flaky. At the same time, some people overshoot with their own ideals that it'd almost require them to be "perfect" if they actually lived up to them. Which is impossible. I'm not going to expect that. I'll just be disappointed if it affects me.
    YEA. I'm curious... is perfectionism a Fi thing? Excuse me, I'm still learning.
    ( . )( . )

  3. #103
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    YEA. I'm curious... is perfectionism a Fi thing? Excuse me, I'm still learning.
    I don't know. But if it is, I'd want them to relax.

  4. #104
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Did any of Fi types you had in mind personally let you down with this inconsistency? I'm just wondering why it's on your mind.

    I don't know if it's a Fi thing, but I don't want to know about someone's great ideals, and then they turn out to be flaky. At the same time, some people overshoot with their own ideals that it'd almost require them to be "perfect" if they actually lived up to them. Which is impossible. I'm not going to expect that. I'll just be disappointed if it affects me.

    I'm not looking for perfection. I don't police people. What captures my attention is when someone reacts self-righteously to an action done to them that they do themselves. I haven't been let down by Fi users. I don't "get" this quality I have seen in them (including my ESTJ ex) and seek to understand it.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I'm not looking for perfection. I don't police people. What captures my attention is when someone reacts self-righteously to an action done to them that they do themselves. I haven't been let down by Fi users. I don't "get" this quality I have seen in them (including my ESTJ ex) and seek to understand it.
    OK. Come to come to think of it, I can't think of an actual instance where this stands out. What I had in mind was a bit more subtle, where I see the logical conclusion or application of so and so "ideal" or value, but someone being inconsistent in where/when they apply it. It might not necessarily be blatant inconsistency in these cases, but a little naivete maybe.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Did any of Fi types you had in mind personally let you down with this inconsistency? I'm just wondering why it's on your mind.

    I don't know if it's a Fi thing, but I don't want to know about someone's great ideals, and then they turn out to be flaky. At the same time, some people overshoot with their own ideals that it'd almost require them to be "perfect" if they actually lived up to them. Which is impossible. I'm not going to expect that. I'll just be disappointed if it affects me.
    I agree with MDP2525 and captures my attention explains it pretty good. It doesnt generally bother me in types like INFP at all because of they ay they handle themselves, when they re3ach this they are stressed. As the type moves toward ExTJ then its more and more annoying. They just come across as blind and dont really even see who they are, just want what they want. Not saying every ExTJ is like this, but its more prevelant in that type because how forward and out going they are, they dont take the time to introspect. I have been pretty good friends with an ESTJ and you just push back and dont really expect them to change. Its a slow and eventual process, but not there strong point. Its easier for me to deal with ExTJ in this manner then ExFJ. Something about ExFJ rubs me the wrong way. I guess T is easier for me to deal with and dismiss then a dom Fe.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #107
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    This requirement of some consistency between principles and actions is interesting and alarming. It's pretty strict if it has to be true in the outside world, and it's weirdly pure. I also wonder if it's not true that, like with everything in typology, most people would agree there should be such a consistency and that different people locate the consistency in different arenas.

    For one thing, with Te/Fi the outside world isn't moral. It can be organised and efforts toward goals can be made. But failing to go through a collection of appropriate motions toward a goal isn't a personal failing. (It probably will become so if it happens again and again and you grow to rely on being perceived as a fuck up, but if you were actually trying or just didn't know, then you have an out.)

    For another thing--and this is a grey area--the fact that the outside world is meant to be organised in terms of impersonal utility maybe means... well, hell, I don't know what it maybe means, but I think there probably is some consequence for where consistency of principle will lie.

    That said, making simple utility be a moral principle gravely misses some point too.



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  8. #108
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    I agree with MDP2525 and captures my attention explains it pretty good. It doesnt generally bother me in types like INFP at all because of they ay they handle themselves, when they re3ach this they are stressed. As the type moves toward ExTJ then its more and more annoying. They just come across as blind and dont really even see who they are, just want what they want. Not saying every ExTJ is like this, but its more prevelant in that type because how forward and out going they are, they dont take the time to introspect. I have been pretty good friends with an ESTJ and you just push back and dont really expect them to change. Its a slow and eventual process, but not there strong point. Its easier for me to deal with ExTJ in this manner then ExFJ. Something about ExFJ rubs me the wrong way. I guess T is easier for me to deal with and dismiss then a dom Fe.
    I've had some bad experience with EFJ, but for the most part it's really nothing to me. They're just intense or expect me to be a part of things I don't want anything to do with. There's no conflict here so much as an I/E socializing difference. I have an STJ friend, and the main thing that annoys me about him is his sense of "normalcy". I think it's more a Si/Se difference. He's becoming more and more like his conservative mom as he gets older. Like he'll grumble about some kid's haircut walking down the street or something. And all I say is "lol wtf?" The good thing is, I haven't hung around anyone for over a year. Keeping to yourself is a good way to avoid problems. I think half of the crap I deal with people comes down to me just asking for it. It's not good to hang around too much.

  9. #109
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    I guess, perhaps for the NFPs anyway, we don't really distinguish between personal issues and larger problems. That's not to say we imagine our personal issues are large problems, it's just that we think a problem is a problem; no matter how big or trivial it is, it's still something on our mind worth exploring. Also, sometimes we like to talk about it simply because it's nice to have something you think or feel be affirmed and reflected in another. You know, this sort of thing:

    Person A: "I find X irritating."
    Person B: "You do? So do I! I was just thinking yesterday how annoying it is."
    Person A: "Really? I thought I was the only one who noticed."


    In the scheme of things, X might not be annoying on the same level as your car breaking down or having your wallet stolen but that's not really the point. It's more about a sense of connection and commonality. With FPs (again, maybe NFPs in particular), we often like to demonstrate empathy through talking about our own experiences in a similar situation, to show others they're not alone or just to not feel so alone ourselves.

    And like I said, often it's just talk for the sake of it - it's not necessarily a demand that something should be changed. I do understand your point that people shouldn't complain unless it's important, though. I suppose people see this as a place to discuss things, even the trivial kind, and they can get a bit carried away. 'White people's problems', you know...
    The bolded part I'm guilty of doing but I find it irritating when other people do it. Ahhh, the irony! When other people do it, it comes across to me as being overly petty, or on forums when someone complains about something most people wouldn't complain about some part of me makes me wonder if they are purposely trying to be contradictory and disagreeable. Kind of like, I'm going to say how I feel and I don't care how my words impact others. If others are offended at what I say, so be it.

    Of course, that's not really completely true and I have been guilty of instigating such conversations myself. It's not to be purposefully contradictory. Sometimes it's for affirmation, to know I'm not crazy for feeling a certain way or if the majority agrees with something I disagree with, I want some understanding as to where they're coming from so I can relate to them better.
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  10. #110
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    ^ but that's extroverted judgment in action! When people do that checking in with others, it's not just empathy or whatnot, it's the creation of public judgment.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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