User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 133

  1. #11
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post


    Did you even bother to read my reply to Protean? I mean really read it?

    No where have I said that I cut people who speak to me. If someone says hello I say hello back.

    Sorry to sound so sharp here, but it is really frustrating to make something clear and have people simply paint their own assumptions right over it anyway.
    I didn't say you did. I simply said you mentioned ESFJ's. When I said "sorry Heart if this happened....." I didn't mean you'd done it I was using Protean's example to say what I'd do (as a person with primary Fe) if it happened to me
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  2. #12
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    (which, sorry Heart, in the workplace when someone says good morning...just good manners to say good morning back....
    This is clearly directed at me personally, as if you are instructing me on workplace manners. It is a lecture I don't need. I know enough to say "hi" to the people who say hi or smile at me. I'll nod often when I don't smile back. I am not a complete social cretin. Geez...

  3. #13
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    This is clearly directed at me personally, as if you are instructing me on workplace manners. It is a lecture I don't need. I know enough to say "hi" to the people who say hi or smile at me. I'll nod often when I don't smile back. I am not a complete social cretin. Geez...
    Ok
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  4. #14
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Clarifying here... I merely said that I often deal with distrust coming from people who seem to be Fe dom and from people I know to be Fe dom, because I am not bubbly in person and I am not a smiley person. I know this is the case, they come right out and tell me, it is not a big mystery, but it is hard for me to understand why it is such a big deal to them and why they feel the need to push at me.

    I have dealt with some actual hostility from some of them over it. Bluewing's post here helped me to understand why that might be in a way I can have more empathy for than just wondering why some people have to be so invasive. That's actually a postive thing!

    Then Protean said the only place she dealt/heard of with such issues was on this board and I said, that's fortunate for her, because for me, they are some of the hardest interpersonal stumbling blocks for me (personally) to cope with. I was just posting to express myself and my experiences.

    Then I get told basically if I ignore people's greetings I can expect difficulties and I tried to explain that no I do not ignore people, I do the basic polite thing but still have some difficulities with some Fe doms. It is just mega frustrating to have tried to be clear about all of that and get a personally directed statement back that it is just good manners to say hello if someone says hello! It is more complicated an issue than that. People expect a hellvalot more than a hello. They want the big sunshine smiley!

    It is like speaking into the wind....and some people will continue to say the same things to me over and over. It is really frustrating.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Clarifying here... I merely said that I often deal with distrust coming from people who seem to be Fe dom and from people I know to be Fe dom, because I am not bubbly in person and I am not a smiley person. I have dealt with some actual hostility from some of them over it. Bluew

    Protean said the only place she dealt/heard of with such issues was on this board and I said, that's fortunate for her, because for me, they are some of the hardest interpersonal stumbling blocks for me (personally) to cope with.

    Then I get told basically if I ignore people's greetings I can expect difficulties and I tried to explain that no I do not ignore people, I do the basic polite thing but still have some difficulities with some Fe doms. It is just mega frustrating to have tried to be clear about all of that and get a personally directed statement back that it is just good manners to say hello if someone says hello!

    It is like speaking into the wind....and some people will continue to say the same things to me over and over. It is really frustrating.

    I hesitate to say that perhaps you don't recognize that both Protean and I were not saying what YOU do. It seems to me she was trying to find out what you do and since you responded to her and she hasn't yet (at least not publicly) I can't speak for her. I read your Fi/Fe post. Saw quite clearly that you said you don't give the cut direct and when I replied wasn't saying what you do just responding to what Protean said.(perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough)...you then responded with no one is getting what I'm saying quite clearly. I said ok but for some reason it's still frustrating you. You didn't address the fact that you are talking about anyone with dominate Fe and this thread is about ENFJ's a different type than ESFJs which I mentioned that YOU mentioned in your Fi/Fe thread. (and a point that you didn't address so I'm not sure that you read that part of my post) I suppose I could be frustrated because I don't know still if your problem with the people at work is about ENFJ's (which again is what the thread was about)...or just any old dom Fe type which would only be (ENFJ and ESFJ)...maybe I shoud thank you because actually one of my problems with the ENFJ profile was that it didn't seem to fit my experience with Fe.

    So I'm truly sorry you're feeling so frustrated, I'm not quite sure what I can do about that besides say...If I misunderstood I apologize.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  6. #16
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    I hesitate to say that perhaps you don't recognize that both Protean and I were not saying what YOU do.
    Then why say "and sorry heart it is just good manners....as if you were directing it at me personally and as if I would disagree that it is rude to outright ignore others, when if you had really read my reply to protean, you would have known that I wouldn't.


    It seems to me she was trying to find out what you do and since you responded to her and she hasn't yet (at least not publicly) I can't speak for her.
    Yes, I realized this and I responded to her point by point to make my position clear. I have no issue with her on this.


    I read your Fi/Fe post. Saw quite clearly that you said you don't give the cut direct and when I replied wasn't saying what you do just responding to what Protean said.
    I guess it was the "sorry heart but..." that threw me.

    (perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough)...you then responded with no one is getting what I'm saying quite clearly. I said ok but for some reason it's still frustrating you. You didn't address the fact that you are talking about anyone with dominate Fe and this thread is about ENFJ's a different type than ESFJs which I mentioned that YOU mentioned in your Fi/Fe thread. (and a point that you didn't address so I'm not sure that you read that part of my post) I suppose I could be frustrated because I don't know still if your problem with the people at work is about ENFJ's (which again is what the thread was about)...or just any old dom Fe type which would only be (ENFJ and ESFJ)...maybe I shoud thank you because actually one of my problems with the ENFJ profile was that it didn't seem to fit my experience with Fe.
    You didn't address those points to me or reply in my Fi/Fe thread so I saw no imparative to reply to it and I was mostly just floored to see your comment that was directly directed at me about it being bad manners to ignore people who say hello. I wouldn't have felt so frustrated if I had not already addressed this issue.

    So I'm truly sorry you're feeling so frustrated, I'm not quite sure what I can do about that besides say...If I misunderstood I apologize.
    It is not the first time I have been frustrated, won't be the last, at least here in the online world I can pace my words out and refute it. In real life, it is often impossible to be heard. Anyway it is over and not that big of a frustration. So sorry too.

  7. #17
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Heart... I think the reason they said that was that when you described the behavior of the ExFJ's in question, they tried to think of what might have compelled them to react to you in the same ways that you claim these ExFJ's reacted to you. They didn't understand that you were literally being expected to be totally bright and cheerful all the time rather than just being reasonably polite, because the latter is how they tend to react and what they tend to expect.

    They basically think you had to have made a larger error than you're aware of in order to elicit such a reaction from someone who thinks similarly to themselves, so they're checking basic things that you may have already mentioned in order to make sure that you understand them as well as you think you do.

    In other words, they personally would not expect from you the same kind of ridiculously bright smile that these people expect, but would just expect a normal one. They're also questioning whether your descriptions and labels of your own actions are accurate relative to most people's interpretations, and whether it's the same as a typical person's idea of that same behavior, and whether a typical person would see your behavior as "sufficiently polite" even if you personally do.

    There is one more thing to consider. I know that some INFP's just make me feel irritated by their very presence, and they don't have to do anything other than be in the same room. It's almost like they have a darkened aura or something, and I have to fight really hard to be nice to them rather than criticizing everything about them as if it were insufficient. I think it's the way they seem to see all this value in themselves and how they can't be affected by how I react to them, and it just makes me feel superfluous. I don't like when other people see the expressions of others as superfluous, and still feel like they have a right to see their own as valuable, especially when others don't value them. I'd note that you don't have that effect on me, but then I don't know whether you would in person or not.

  8. #18
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    EDITED: Athenian, I understand how on first reading, they made certain assumptions based on their own experiences. *sigh* and I have tried to make this understanding clear as well...but after I explained that I don't ignore people, I did not expect for it to come up again, directed at me personally.

    It is like I am not even speaking in English and very frustrating.

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    EDITED: Athenian, I understand how on first reading, they made certain assumptions based on their own experiences. *sigh* and I have tried to make this understanding clear as well...but after I explained that I don't ignore people, I did not expect for it to come up again, directed at me personally.
    My guess is that they wanted to clarify about what that meant, in order to help you understand why these people have such unusual expectations of you. You must be doing something unconciously to put them off, if they don't do this to everyone else. Saying that you "don't ignore people" could mean any number of things, as there are several kinds of attention you can give a person, as well as several ways to express your intentions towards them. It's like you want us to accept that your interpretation of yourself "not ignoring" people is good enough, without going much further into it. Also, it was implied in the way you phrased your statement that you wanted help in understanding and addressing the origin of these unusual expectations, which I think they were trying to provide by getting you to discuss in detail what happens and determine what the cause of the situation might be.

    EDIT: If the people in question do actually do this to everyone, then they are probably somewhat unhealthy varients of what ever type they are, and may or may not be ExFJ's. Which means you shouldn't feel any responsibility.
    It is like I am not even speaking in English and very frustrating.
    I agree, except I would say "confusing."

    I guess you can even see it in our respective usernames... "athenian" and "heart." You could tell, just from the ideas and connections evoked by those two words, that we see the world through different lenses, and thus cannot comprehend one another's perspectives easily, if at all. Okay, I guess "frustrating" would be appropriate as well, now that I think about it.

  10. #20
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    ...Saying that you "don't ignore people" could mean any number of things, as there are several kinds of attention you can give a person, as well as several ways to express your intentions towards them. It's like you want us to accept that your interpretation of yourself "not ignoring" people is good enough, without going much further into it...
    Okay, I will try again, they both described situations where they said "hello" to someone and that someone gave them no response, looked right at them and gave them no response.

    That's a totally cut and dried situation. It is actually called a "cut direct."

    I replied that I DO say "hello" when someone says it to me. ( and yes this includes all the various forms of that hi, howdy, Yo, hey, good morning, whatzup, how's it hanging...whatever. )

    In fact, I will say "hi" to everyone who makes eye contact with me some place like work, even though I often really would rather not. But this is not enough for some people! They want: and I am all:

    I will tend to stick to "hi" and then say "fine, how are you" when people follow up with the how are you. What more should be expected? How much further should I be expected to go into this before you will "accept" my word that I am not talking about completely ignoring people, cutting them direct?

    So if there is another version of not ingoring someone who says hello, that does not include me saying a greeting back, share this with me because I don't understand it.

    There is a tendancy to connect the lack of smiles and bubbliness with a total lack of communication and I want to make clear, very clear that I am not talking about cutting people direct, only a lack of constant smiles and bubbliness and yes, it has been my experience that this leads certain people to be distrustful of me or to dislike being around me, they tell me so!

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] NF's Fencing between Fe and Fi
    By Crescent Fresh in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-02-2012, 03:21 PM
  2. [NT] Fe and Fi, the NT version
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 09:55 AM
  3. [NF] What do Fe and Fi mean to you?
    By VagrantFarce in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-09-2009, 03:44 PM
  4. Confusion between Si and Fi.
    By Poki in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-05-2009, 08:41 PM
  5. [NF] Fe and Fi, say what you love about your F function!
    By BlueScreen in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-17-2008, 06:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO