[INFJ] INFJs and Neurosis

[A_priori]

Hey guys I am brand new here and was wondering if other INFJs feel like they may come off a little neurotic. A lot of people I know who are higher functioning neurotics tend to be FJs and I think this trait may be a little more intrinsic for the FJ over other personality types. The reason I feel this was is because of some observations I have made in the feild that I work in ect.. I also have finally come to except and understand that I can be a little on the neurotic side myself. It's almost as if I feel like I don't regulate my emotions as well as others and being an FE my FI friends seem to pick it up on me the easiest. I have an almost impossible time trying to hide how I feel and wish that I wasn't such a self preservationist. It would seem that relationships are a real oxymoron in my life as I really enjoy being around others but just want to be left alone. I feel like I am overly complicated and sometimes just want to be off gaurd and shut off my NI for a little while. Everything that I do and all that I am is completely independent of what the rest of the world seems to be doing, which I love to feed but feel like its maybe unhealthy in some ways. Everything is complicated in my life especially being a guy. I feel a lot of other peoples emotions and just want to help and understand others. When I took the MBTI and my results came back INFJ I wasn't the slightest bit surprised. Anyways, I realize I am getting off the topic of neurosis but the reading on this thread is really between the lines. I was reciently reading this book by jeffrey a kottler who is a therapist and a professer in the department of councelling at California state university who I believe to be without a doubt INFJ as well. I believe he talks about neurosis being quite common with this sort of personality type, including himself. How do you other FJs feel you are in terms of emotional stability and how do you think this might also relate to the enneagram?

Nice to meet you all =)

 

[SilkRoad]

Hey guys I am brand new here and was wondering if other INFJs feel like they may come off a little neurotic. A lot of people I know who are higher functioning neurotics tend to be FJs and I think this trait may be a little more intrinsic for the FJ over other personality types. The reason I feel this was is because of some observations I have made in the feild that I work in ect.. I also have finally come to except and understand that I can be a little on the neurotic side myself. It's almost as if I feel like I don't regulate my emotions as well as others and being an FE my FI friends seem to pick it up on me the easiest. I have an almost impossible time trying to hide how I feel and wish that I wasn't such a self preservationist. It would seem that relationships are a real oxymoron in my life as I really enjoy being around others but just want to be left alone. I feel like I am overly complicated and sometimes just want to be off gaurd and shut off my NI for a little while. Everything that I do and all that I am is completely independent of what the rest of the world seems to be doing, which I love to feed but feel like its maybe unhealthy in some ways. Everything is complicated in my life especially being a guy. I feel a lot of other peoples emotions and just want to help and understand others. When I took the MBTI and my results came back INFJ I wasn't the slightest bit surprised. Anyways, I realize I am getting off the topic of neurosis but the reading on this thread is really between the lines. I was reciently reading this book by jeffrey a kottler who is a therapist and a professer in the department of councelling at California state university who I believe to be without a doubt INFJ as well. I believe he talks about neurosis being quite common with this sort of personality type, including himself. How do you other FJs feel you are in terms of emotional stability and how do you think this might also relate to the enneagram?

Nice to meet you all =)

Yeah, I kind of feel that way, though in a somewhat different way from you, I think. I'm a 6w5 INFJ which is distinctly different from type 4, it seems. I worry about things a lot and over-analyze and that's where the neuroticism comes in...though I think it's fairly low-level but it's still there. People who don't know me quite as well see me as very calm and laid-back...I've been told by so many people that I give off that vibe...so that when they get to know me better and see me being anxious and worrying and phobic and paranoid and over-analytical (not all the time!! some of the time), they are a bit shocked.

I posted a thread on this forum about feeling "Fe'd out" quite a lot (just tired of being around people and feeling like I have to reach out to them) and someone pointed out that being an Fe aux can be quite difficult in this regard - INFJs are introverts but the Fe makes you feel obliged to reach out. That certainly applies to me, partly by personality and partly by social obligations. Although I'm a pretty outgoing INFJ and often get told "you're a people person, how can you be an introvert?" and stuff like that. I really do need people. One of the most important things in my life is knowing that I have healthy and reliable relationships with at least some other people. I rely so much on that, perhaps too much. It's not that I have to see these people all the time - sometimes I don't see them for quite a while, some of them live in other countries, etc - but I think about them every day and rely quite a lot on the knowledge of their care for me. But although I also enjoy socializing it does tire me, especially when it's people I'm not very close to, or constant small talk or whatever.

Another reason why I lean a lot on the reliable people in my life (even if it's not obvious that I'm "leaning"...if that makes sense) is because I can sense-check things with them, and they can either say "you're not being paranoid at all, I'd feel the same or even worse" or "I can understand why you feel that way, but realistically, it's not quite that bad because..."

 

[A_priori]

Ya, I think what a lot of people may not understand is that neurosis can come out in many differnt behaviors. Most people who know me would never consider me neurotic, mainly because I control myself so well and I am very good at adapting to different situations. I am also quite quiet when I am around people and tend to be a lot more observant. Neurosis can come out in so many differnt forms and the problems that I expereince are more specifically intamicy and over stimulation. Because I am usually off in my own rich world, I am not someone who requires a lot of external stimuli. When it comes to relationships I seem to close myself off. I don't feel like I want to waist my time on people who I don't see myself having a potential meaningful future with. It's a strange thing being an INFJ, I am always looking for meaning and don't often find it. I wish I knew some other INFJs in real life because I would love to sit and chat. I like to see how others behave and not just see text all the time.

 

[Chiharu]

I know quite a few neurotic INFJs, but i can't say that my own experience is a good basis.

 

[Ribonuke]

Well, I always worried that I was neurotic, because of the negative connotations associated with it.

However, after learning that 'neurotic' just means 'more susceptible to negative emotional states such as depression and anxiety', I learned to accept it as a part of myself.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I prefer to think of neurosis in Jungian terms. For me, that means basically being in a loop between the dom and tert function. For example, Ni/Ti; extrapolate for other types. So, it is obvious you are introverting too much, which is also reflected in the fact that you seem at least slightly self-absorbed. My recommendation would be to get outside your own head. The easiest way is to just be in the world, either via information, or preferably, physically. Force youself to use some extraverted functions and you might see yourself becoming less neurotic. As you become less neurotic, you will naturally attract others to you.

When, and if, you attract others to you, I'd not worry so much about all the possible outcomes of that. Just enjoy people's as they come. That is how we find JOY! It's usually when we interact with others in a meaningful way.

 

[1487610420]

*chuckle @ OP*

 

[Lexicon]

*raises hand*

I don't associate psychological/psychiatric issues with MBTI type, per se. Some may appear more prone to certain things, but any type can be neurotic, etc. May be focused on different things, though. Or the same, even.

And ultimately, does it matter?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

*raises hand*

I don't associate psychological/psychiatric issues with MBTI type, per se. Some may appear more prone to certain things, but any type can be neurotic, etc. May be focused on different things, though. Or the same, even.

And ultimately, does it matter?

Do you not like Jungian teaching then? He is all into neurosis.

Neurosis isn't optimal. So, yes, it matters.

Doesn't it?

 

[Lexicon]

Do you not like Jungian teaching then? He is all into neurosis.

Neurosis isn't optimal. So, yes, it matters.

Doesn't it?

I meant, does it actually matter which type seems prone to/more prone to what?
How much does that perception-based knowledge actually help with resolving said neurosis? How much time should be dedicated to such analysis of various groups versus the individual, things like that. I don't claim to have an answer. Just questions that popped in my mind.

I wasn't discounting potential use, I was merely asking how useful do others think it is/could be.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I meant, does it actually matter which type seems prone to/more prone to what?
How much does that perception-based knowledge actually help with resolving said neurosis? How much time should be dedicated to such analysis of various groups versus the individual, things like that. I don't claim to have an answer. Just questions that popped in my mind.

I wasn't discounting potential use, I was merely asking how useful do others think it is/could be.

I actually think it is one of the better uses of CFT myself. Because if you can identify your function preferences, especially when you are neurotic, or even psychotic, it might give you some valuable information to where you are going wrong, to help you go right.

 

[Lexicon]

I actually think it is one of the better uses of CFT myself. Because if you can identify your function preferences, especially when you are neurotic, or even psychotic, it might give you some valuable information to where you are going wrong, to help you go right.

Well yeah, on a person to person basis, I can see that, absolutely. I think in terms of group discussions it can be a pathway to losing focus on the problem because people always seem to get mired in the specifics of 'one type seems more vulnerable to this/another to that..' and there'll always be someone who views it otherwise.. I just see it potentially creating a mess, the attention shifts from understanding a problem to defending a type or a point of view about something loosely related.. it'd be great to find a way around that part, someday, I suppose.

 

[Ginkgo]

Do you not like Jungian teaching then? He is all into neurosis.

Neurosis isn't optimal. So, yes, it matters.

Doesn't it?

Neurosis is neurosis, regardless of type. What matters most, IMO, is listening to the individual and treating the individual's problems as the individual's problems.

 

[A_priori]

I prefer to think of neurosis in Jungian terms. For me, that means basically being in a loop between the dom and tert function. For example, Ni/Ti; extrapolate for other types. So, it is obvious you are introverting too much, which is also reflected in the fact that you seem at least slightly self-absorbed. My recommendation would be to get outside your own head. The easiest way is to just be in the world, either via information, or preferably, physically. Force youself to use some extraverted functions and you might see yourself becoming less neurotic. As you become less neurotic, you will naturally attract others to you.

When, and if, you attract others to you, I'd not worry so much about all the possible outcomes of that. Just enjoy people's as they come. That is how we find JOY! It's usually when we interact with others in a meaningful way.

Wow that's quite a bit of advice and objective feedback considering I have only posted a couple times.. I however don't see neurosis as nearly so black and white. When it comes to classifying neurosis I don't think it can be pin pointed to not expressing your Extraverted functions ect.. Neurosis is a disregulation of emotions meaning that when something is bothering you, you tend to hold on to the negitive emotions that are associated. This is where neurosis typically stems from "typically" I dont think there is an exact quintessential example but I will try and explain a more common theme from what I understand. Consider the situation as hypothetical.. You have just had a tough day and you have become overwhelmed with disappointments, rejections ect.. The Adverage person may look at extenuating circomstances leading to the frustrations and after a few hours of coming to terms soon come to except that they simply had a bad day. For the more neurotic type they may not come to terms so easy. They may become encompassed in thier emptions to the point where there is a negitive change in there behaviour in order to try and cope. For a person suffering from extreme neurosis they may become stuck in the coping stage to the point where they are almost a slave to it. This is typically where the trouble lies for people who experience neurosis. They have trouble unwinding, there is an effect on the behavior and as a result they most likely have developed poor coping statagies.. I didn't make this thread in the effert to have someone solve all my problems I just simply wanted to open up this topic because I think INFJs may be more prone to neurotic traits. Also in response to your comment about me being obviously self observed and not using my creative function, I don't think thats a very accurate dipiction. For example I work in a service orrientated feild and am constantly building interpersonal relations.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Wow that's quite a bit of advice and objective feedback considering I have only posted a couple times.. I however don't see neurosis as nearly so black and white. When it comes to classifying neurosis I don't think it can be pin pointed to not expressing your Extraverted functions ect.. Neurosis is a disregulation of emotions meaning that when something is bothering you, you tend to hold on to the negitive emotions that are associated. This is where neurosis typically stems from "typically" I dont think there is an exact quintessential example but I will try and explain a more common theme from what I understand. Consider the situation as hypothetical.. You have just had a tough day and you have become overwhelmed with disappointments, rejections ect.. The Adverage person may look at extenuating circomstances leading to the frustrations and after a few hours of coming to terms soon come to except that they simply had a bad day. For the more neurotic type they may not come to terms so easy. They may become encompassed in thier emptions to the point where there is a negitive change in there behaviour in order to try and cope. For a person suffering from extreme neurosis they may become stuck in the coping stage to the point where they are almost a slave to it. This is typically where the trouble lies for people who experience neurosis. They have trouble unwinding, there is an effect on the behavior and as a result they most likely have developed poor coping statagies.. I didn't make this thread in the effert to have someone solve all my problems I just simply wanted to open up this topic because I think INFJs may be more prone to neurotic traits. Also in response to your comment about me being obviously self observed and not using my creative function, I don't think thats a very accurate dipiction. For example I work in a service orrientated feild and am constantly building interpersonal relations.

I'm saying that it makes little difference if you are an INFJ or any other type. Anyone can be a victim of neurosis and psychosis. For some reason, events have affected the person's psyche, and resultant development, to the point where their coping skills (as you pointed out) are lacking. The loop phenomenon can give a very going indicator to where this coping is getting hung up. If you can then change some of the ineffective coping to behaviors to ones that are better suited to your personality, you can then (hopefully) have a reprieve from your neurosis long enough to also work on why your ego was affected in the first place.

Extraverts can be neurotic too. Sometimes people extravert too much, and need to spend more time quietly alone (this is when prayer or meditation would help most). Some need to extravert more, either with people or just in the world in general. I think an imbalance of introversion/extraversion is a prime indicator that someone suffers from a neurosis. Changing the behavior won't fix the problem, but it will help with daily functioning, and to feel healthier in the short-term. Like working backwards.

Just my hypothesis.

 

[Juxtapose]

I have to agree with [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION]. From a more neurobiological perspective, the neocortex and limbic system (emotional center) affect each other, meaning that your thoughts affect the secretion of hormones which influence your emotional state. In turn, these emotions might reinforce the negative thoughts. I believe that this could be, in essence, how people become stuck in negative thought/behaviour patterns (loops). In this case it would make a great deal of sense that prolonged negative thinking, coupled with introversion would lead to neurotic tendencies. I hope all of this made sense, I'm not the greatest at explanations but I think this information supports Aphrodite's perspective.

 

[A_priori]

I'm saying that it makes little difference if you are an INFJ or any other type. Anyone can be a victim of neurosis and psychosis. For some reason, events have affected the person's psyche, and resultant development, to the point where their coping skills (as you pointed out) are lacking. The loop phenomenon can give a very going indicator to where this coping is getting hung up. If you can then change some of the ineffective coping to behaviors to ones that are better suited to your personality, you can then (hopefully) have a reprieve from your neurosis long enough to also work on why your ego was affected in the first place.

Extraverts can be neurotic too. Sometimes people extravert too much, and need to spend more time quietly alone (this is when prayer or meditation would help most). Some need to extravert more, either with people or just in the world in general. I think an imbalance of introversion/extraversion is a prime indicator that someone suffers from a neurosis. Changing the behavior won't fix the problem, but it will help with daily functioning, and to feel healthier in the short-term. Like working backwards.

Just my hypothesis.

I'm a little confused because your first post your basically telling me that i am making a loop between my dom and tertiary functions, as if you know this to be factual. Then you go on to advice me on what i should and shouldn't do. Now your saying that type makes little difference what type you are and an imbalance of introversion/extroversion is a prime indicator of someone with neurosis.

I realize that you follow a lot of Jungian theory and i think that's great. I also respect and agree with a lot of his observations/theory as well, But what you are saying is just that, strictly theory. What i am saying is that i also have made some of my own observations and i do believe some personality types are slightly more prone to neurosis. I do agree the the behaviors exhibited in neurosis are indicative of a pattern, i just don't share the exact same standpoint. I am not in the slightest bit ashamed to say that i can be slightly on the neurotic side. I think even Jung himself talks about how a bit of neurosis can be healthy.

Anyways for the most part i can see that we actually have a similar understanding and am not on here to compete theories. I can appreciate the feedback i just feel like you got ahead of yourself a bit in the beginning. Perhaps we are both idealists lol

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I'm a little confused because your first post your basically telling me that i am making a loop between my dom and tertiary functions, as if you know this to be factual. Then you go on to advice me on what i should and shouldn't do. Now your saying that type makes little difference what type you are and an imbalance of introversion/extroversion is a prime indicator of someone with neurosis.

I realize that you follow a lot of Jungian theory and i think that's great. I also respect and agree with a lot of his observations/theory as well, But what you are saying is just that, strictly theory. What i am saying is that i also have made some of my own observations and i do believe some personality types are slightly more prone to neurosis. I do agree the the behaviors exhibited in neurosis are indicative of a pattern, i just don't share the exact same standpoint. I am not in the slightest bit ashamed to say that i can be slightly on the neurotic side. I think even Jung himself talks about how a bit of neurosis can be healthy.

Anyways for the most part i can see that we actually have a similar understanding and am not on here to compete theories. I can appreciate the feedback i just feel like you got ahead of yourself a bit in the beginning. Perhaps we are both idealists lol

When I see 'neurosis' I just tend to think about my theory (based on Jung) of the dom/tert loop thing. No offense to you.

It might seem like Ni doms are more neurotic. Who knows? What would you call that if you had to label what it looks like? Jung says we are basically worthless in P.T.

But if you think of a Ti dom, they can get quite paranoid-neurotic. Fi doms could get self-persecution neurotic Fi/Si or even Ti. Etc. I used to have a list with names/labels of the most likely expression of neurosis and psychosis for each type.

 

[A_priori]

When I see 'neurosis' I just tend to think about my theory (based on Jung) of the dom/tert loop thing. No offense to you.

It might seem like Ni doms are more neurotic. Who knows? What would you call that if you had to label what it looks like? Jung says we are basically worthless in P.T.

But if you think of a Ti dom, they can get quite paranoid-neurotic. Fi doms could get self-persecution neurotic Fi/Si or even Ti. Etc. I used to have a list with names/labels of the most likely expression of neurosis and psychosis for each type.

Ya I can respect your views.. I am somone who feels that typecasting and labling for the most part can be dangerous and hindering. I also understand that its a heavier topic and am kind of kicking myself for picking as an introductory topic because I don't want people to paint the wrong picture of me. Anyways, Its apparent that we both have a relitivly good understanding of how neurosis presents itself, just slightly differnt views ect.. What I have seen on here so far are a good percentage identifying themselfs with a bit of this trait and some who don't seem to really have a good idea of what neurosis even is. In any event this thread is here if people want to add there two cents in a constructive way. Always good to hear other perspectives

 

[SilkRoad]

I think being "neurotic" at a sort of...low or manageable level can actually make you more aware and careful, including more self-aware. But at more of an extreme it could be a type of mental illness and crippling. INFJs are definitely likely to be one of the neurotic/hyper-sensitive types.

I think if you can be reasonably outward-looking - ie. aware both of yourself and of others - it's not going to be too bad.