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  1. #11
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I meant, does it actually matter which type seems prone to/more prone to what?
    How much does that perception-based knowledge actually help with resolving said neurosis? How much time should be dedicated to such analysis of various groups versus the individual, things like that. I don't claim to have an answer. Just questions that popped in my mind.

    I wasn't discounting potential use, I was merely asking how useful do others think it is/could be.
    I actually think it is one of the better uses of CFT myself. Because if you can identify your function preferences, especially when you are neurotic, or even psychotic, it might give you some valuable information to where you are going wrong, to help you go right.
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  2. #12
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I actually think it is one of the better uses of CFT myself. Because if you can identify your function preferences, especially when you are neurotic, or even psychotic, it might give you some valuable information to where you are going wrong, to help you go right.
    Well yeah, on a person to person basis, I can see that, absolutely. I think in terms of group discussions it can be a pathway to losing focus on the problem because people always seem to get mired in the specifics of 'one type seems more vulnerable to this/another to that..' and there'll always be someone who views it otherwise.. I just see it potentially creating a mess, the attention shifts from understanding a problem to defending a type or a point of view about something loosely related.. it'd be great to find a way around that part, someday, I suppose.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Do you not like Jungian teaching then? He is all into neurosis.

    Neurosis isn't optimal. So, yes, it matters.

    Doesn't it?
    Neurosis is neurosis, regardless of type. What matters most, IMO, is listening to the individual and treating the individual's problems as the individual's problems.

  4. #14
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I prefer to think of neurosis in Jungian terms. For me, that means basically being in a loop between the dom and tert function. For example, Ni/Ti; extrapolate for other types. So, it is obvious you are introverting too much, which is also reflected in the fact that you seem at least slightly self-absorbed. My recommendation would be to get outside your own head. The easiest way is to just be in the world, either via information, or preferably, physically. Force youself to use some extraverted functions and you might see yourself becoming less neurotic. As you become less neurotic, you will naturally attract others to you.

    When, and if, you attract others to you, I'd not worry so much about all the possible outcomes of that. Just enjoy people's as they come. That is how we find JOY! It's usually when we interact with others in a meaningful way.
    Wow that's quite a bit of advice and objective feedback considering I have only posted a couple times.. I however don't see neurosis as nearly so black and white. When it comes to classifying neurosis I don't think it can be pin pointed to not expressing your Extraverted functions ect.. Neurosis is a disregulation of emotions meaning that when something is bothering you, you tend to hold on to the negitive emotions that are associated. This is where neurosis typically stems from "typically" I dont think there is an exact quintessential example but I will try and explain a more common theme from what I understand. Consider the situation as hypothetical.. You have just had a tough day and you have become overwhelmed with disappointments, rejections ect.. The Adverage person may look at extenuating circomstances leading to the frustrations and after a few hours of coming to terms soon come to except that they simply had a bad day. For the more neurotic type they may not come to terms so easy. They may become encompassed in thier emptions to the point where there is a negitive change in there behaviour in order to try and cope. For a person suffering from extreme neurosis they may become stuck in the coping stage to the point where they are almost a slave to it. This is typically where the trouble lies for people who experience neurosis. They have trouble unwinding, there is an effect on the behavior and as a result they most likely have developed poor coping statagies.. I didn't make this thread in the effert to have someone solve all my problems I just simply wanted to open up this topic because I think INFJs may be more prone to neurotic traits. Also in response to your comment about me being obviously self observed and not using my creative function, I don't think thats a very accurate dipiction. For example I work in a service orrientated feild and am constantly building interpersonal relations.

  5. #15
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_priori View Post
    Wow that's quite a bit of advice and objective feedback considering I have only posted a couple times.. I however don't see neurosis as nearly so black and white. When it comes to classifying neurosis I don't think it can be pin pointed to not expressing your Extraverted functions ect.. Neurosis is a disregulation of emotions meaning that when something is bothering you, you tend to hold on to the negitive emotions that are associated. This is where neurosis typically stems from "typically" I dont think there is an exact quintessential example but I will try and explain a more common theme from what I understand. Consider the situation as hypothetical.. You have just had a tough day and you have become overwhelmed with disappointments, rejections ect.. The Adverage person may look at extenuating circomstances leading to the frustrations and after a few hours of coming to terms soon come to except that they simply had a bad day. For the more neurotic type they may not come to terms so easy. They may become encompassed in thier emptions to the point where there is a negitive change in there behaviour in order to try and cope. For a person suffering from extreme neurosis they may become stuck in the coping stage to the point where they are almost a slave to it. This is typically where the trouble lies for people who experience neurosis. They have trouble unwinding, there is an effect on the behavior and as a result they most likely have developed poor coping statagies.. I didn't make this thread in the effert to have someone solve all my problems I just simply wanted to open up this topic because I think INFJs may be more prone to neurotic traits. Also in response to your comment about me being obviously self observed and not using my creative function, I don't think thats a very accurate dipiction. For example I work in a service orrientated feild and am constantly building interpersonal relations.
    I'm saying that it makes little difference if you are an INFJ or any other type. Anyone can be a victim of neurosis and psychosis. For some reason, events have affected the person's psyche, and resultant development, to the point where their coping skills (as you pointed out) are lacking. The loop phenomenon can give a very going indicator to where this coping is getting hung up. If you can then change some of the ineffective coping to behaviors to ones that are better suited to your personality, you can then (hopefully) have a reprieve from your neurosis long enough to also work on why your ego was affected in the first place.

    Extraverts can be neurotic too. Sometimes people extravert too much, and need to spend more time quietly alone (this is when prayer or meditation would help most). Some need to extravert more, either with people or just in the world in general. I think an imbalance of introversion/extraversion is a prime indicator that someone suffers from a neurosis. Changing the behavior won't fix the problem, but it will help with daily functioning, and to feel healthier in the short-term. Like working backwards.

    Just my hypothesis.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  6. #16
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    I have to agree with @AphroditeGoneAwry. From a more neurobiological perspective, the neocortex and limbic system (emotional center) affect each other, meaning that your thoughts affect the secretion of hormones which influence your emotional state. In turn, these emotions might reinforce the negative thoughts. I believe that this could be, in essence, how people become stuck in negative thought/behaviour patterns (loops). In this case it would make a great deal of sense that prolonged negative thinking, coupled with introversion would lead to neurotic tendencies. I hope all of this made sense, I'm not the greatest at explanations but I think this information supports Aphrodite's perspective.

  7. #17
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'm saying that it makes little difference if you are an INFJ or any other type. Anyone can be a victim of neurosis and psychosis. For some reason, events have affected the person's psyche, and resultant development, to the point where their coping skills (as you pointed out) are lacking. The loop phenomenon can give a very going indicator to where this coping is getting hung up. If you can then change some of the ineffective coping to behaviors to ones that are better suited to your personality, you can then (hopefully) have a reprieve from your neurosis long enough to also work on why your ego was affected in the first place.

    Extraverts can be neurotic too. Sometimes people extravert too much, and need to spend more time quietly alone (this is when prayer or meditation would help most). Some need to extravert more, either with people or just in the world in general. I think an imbalance of introversion/extraversion is a prime indicator that someone suffers from a neurosis. Changing the behavior won't fix the problem, but it will help with daily functioning, and to feel healthier in the short-term. Like working backwards.

    Just my hypothesis.
    I'm a little confused because your first post your basically telling me that i am making a loop between my dom and tertiary functions, as if you know this to be factual. Then you go on to advice me on what i should and shouldn't do. Now your saying that type makes little difference what type you are and an imbalance of introversion/extroversion is a prime indicator of someone with neurosis.

    I realize that you follow a lot of Jungian theory and i think that's great. I also respect and agree with a lot of his observations/theory as well, But what you are saying is just that, strictly theory. What i am saying is that i also have made some of my own observations and i do believe some personality types are slightly more prone to neurosis. I do agree the the behaviors exhibited in neurosis are indicative of a pattern, i just don't share the exact same standpoint. I am not in the slightest bit ashamed to say that i can be slightly on the neurotic side. I think even Jung himself talks about how a bit of neurosis can be healthy.

    Anyways for the most part i can see that we actually have a similar understanding and am not on here to compete theories. I can appreciate the feedback i just feel like you got ahead of yourself a bit in the beginning. Perhaps we are both idealists lol

  8. #18
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_priori View Post
    I'm a little confused because your first post your basically telling me that i am making a loop between my dom and tertiary functions, as if you know this to be factual. Then you go on to advice me on what i should and shouldn't do. Now your saying that type makes little difference what type you are and an imbalance of introversion/extroversion is a prime indicator of someone with neurosis.

    I realize that you follow a lot of Jungian theory and i think that's great. I also respect and agree with a lot of his observations/theory as well, But what you are saying is just that, strictly theory. What i am saying is that i also have made some of my own observations and i do believe some personality types are slightly more prone to neurosis. I do agree the the behaviors exhibited in neurosis are indicative of a pattern, i just don't share the exact same standpoint. I am not in the slightest bit ashamed to say that i can be slightly on the neurotic side. I think even Jung himself talks about how a bit of neurosis can be healthy.

    Anyways for the most part i can see that we actually have a similar understanding and am not on here to compete theories. I can appreciate the feedback i just feel like you got ahead of yourself a bit in the beginning. Perhaps we are both idealists lol

    When I see 'neurosis' I just tend to think about my theory (based on Jung) of the dom/tert loop thing. No offense to you.

    It might seem like Ni doms are more neurotic. Who knows? What would you call that if you had to label what it looks like? Jung says we are basically worthless in P.T.

    But if you think of a Ti dom, they can get quite paranoid-neurotic. Fi doms could get self-persecution neurotic Fi/Si or even Ti. Etc. I used to have a list with names/labels of the most likely expression of neurosis and psychosis for each type.
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  9. #19
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    When I see 'neurosis' I just tend to think about my theory (based on Jung) of the dom/tert loop thing. No offense to you.

    It might seem like Ni doms are more neurotic. Who knows? What would you call that if you had to label what it looks like? Jung says we are basically worthless in P.T.

    But if you think of a Ti dom, they can get quite paranoid-neurotic. Fi doms could get self-persecution neurotic Fi/Si or even Ti. Etc. I used to have a list with names/labels of the most likely expression of neurosis and psychosis for each type.
    Ya I can respect your views.. I am somone who feels that typecasting and labling for the most part can be dangerous and hindering. I also understand that its a heavier topic and am kind of kicking myself for picking as an introductory topic because I don't want people to paint the wrong picture of me. Anyways, Its apparent that we both have a relitivly good understanding of how neurosis presents itself, just slightly differnt views ect.. What I have seen on here so far are a good percentage identifying themselfs with a bit of this trait and some who don't seem to really have a good idea of what neurosis even is. In any event this thread is here if people want to add there two cents in a constructive way. Always good to hear other perspectives

  10. #20
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I think being "neurotic" at a sort of...low or manageable level can actually make you more aware and careful, including more self-aware. But at more of an extreme it could be a type of mental illness and crippling. INFJs are definitely likely to be one of the neurotic/hyper-sensitive types.

    I think if you can be reasonably outward-looking - ie. aware both of yourself and of others - it's not going to be too bad.
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